ROG100

Actually Carl we were talking about your price for Koni shocks at $1023 (from your site) a set v most other suppliers at circa $700 to $750 a set. Maybe your purchasing department needs some assistance - just pulling you leg 8>).

Set of hardware looks good.

Vilhuer

Carl is right in that it's good to have new adjustment pieces. It's modern definition of hell to try to remove old junk from old shocks and try to make them work again. New factory stuff is so expensive that it's good idea to get new Bilstein's instead or custom Koni set since they come as part of the package.

ROG100

I agree that is why Bilstein's are such good value as they come with new lower spring perches, threaded sleeves and adjuster nuts. A good deal at $928 a set of four.

Hilton

For ease of use and rough-ish city roads, I'd go with Bilsteins over Koni's. Plus they include the hardware.

I've got both on my 928's. The Bilsteins are in my daily driver 87 S4, with stock S4 springs - it works very well despite Sydney's poor road surfaces, and definitely drives better than my old '87 S4 which had new Boge's on it (which were too soft for my tastes).

The Koni's are firmer under compression than the bilsteins - I have them on my '89, albeit with firmer than stock springs. I can feel all the bumps in the road more with the Koni's.

Carl Fausett

Our Bilstein's and Koni's come with all their parts. Surprised how often we get calls from 928 owners who have bought Bilsteins and Koni's from discounters and they find they are missing one or more spanner nuts and hardware. So maybe, Roger, you need some help from our purchasing department?

ROG100

Actually Carl take at look at your own website, your Koni's come without ANY hardware and the choice of the adjustment tool or height tool. So we sell for $720 and you sell for $1023 so let me be generous and say the tool is worth $50 - how do you explain the price difference?????????
Wholesale on Koni is about $600 so you are selling at about a 70% markup or are you? Ask your purchasing person what he pays for Koni shocks as I am sure you buy them from Koni like everyone else. To help you out I have attached a link to your website as you obviously have not looked lately 8>). http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/konishocks.php
Thank goodness for "discounters" like most of the parts suppliers in the World because your price is a total rip off.
And before you say you have higher overheads - Bull****!!! I am sure Tirerack, Koni, Paragon and on and on have overheads that would make your eyes water.

So you want to compare prices on Bilstein's, you did bring the subject up - my Bilstein sets come with all the hardware as yours do but without the $20 height adjustment tool so again I add a link to help you out - http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/bilstein.php
$928 a set v $1385 - you are either making a s**t load of money out of 928 owners or buying at retail and selling way above retail. Get your purchasing person to call me as I have plenty of sets I can sell your for less than retail 8>)

And I make a nice living selling at "discounter" prices.

Glad to help you out.

Lizard928

All bilstein shocks from Roger come with everything needed.

As to the Konis, the 5" adjustment sleeves, perches etc can be gotten from Coleman Racing products as off the shelf pieces.

Buying the shocks and all pieces run roughly $1200 including springs. I use H&R springs as the hypercoils don't make springs short enough with the right size and was not happy about being told to use a hacksaw and cut the adjustment sleeve down to run a 2.25"Id spring.

tv

If that is the case maybe check this out -- http://s296.photobucket.com/user/OC5...?sort=3&page=3

Carl Fausett

You are wrong. Please order those parts. They are available. They are not the ones we manufacture and they will not fit your 928. But please, go ahead.

Carl Fausett

Great pictures, tv. Really first-class work.

ROG100

Actually you are wrong again - they do fit from Coleman as Colin says - I have ordered a number of sets for customers in the last couple of years.

Carl Fausett

Sorry Rog, there is something wrong with this metric. Your yardstick and mine just are not the same yardstick.

Now I have no doubt - if you purchase numbers of sets of shocks at one time you can get a better price than we can, because I try not to stock them, and let others stock them for me. So that frees up our available funds for other projects like the 6-speed development. Yes, if I bought several sets at a time I could get a better price also. So that explains some of it.

But the numbers of calls I get from your customers looking for spanner nuts and other shock hardware does stand out. These are your customers that call. Not 928 International's or any others. Just yours. So it did bring us to one conclusion why you are able to buy shocks so cheap - you are ordering just the shock and not the shock with related hardware? I dunno - that's the conclusion that we came to explain all the calls for missing pieces.

As to the rest of the price differential: I'm talking about the complete kit with springs and spring perch adapters and you are talking about the shocks alone.
Let me show you why they are related.

Roger - as you recently had camshaft sprockets made from scratch, hard-coated, (and I observed in your email to me that you will not be making them again); then at least you have had one foray into manufacturing and what it costs.

Guess what it costs to make those upper spring perches (front and rear) and have them hard-coated so you can fit any common 2.5" spring into them? (I like Hypercoils, but as Colin points out, I made them to take any 2.5" spring). Guess how many I have to have made at one time just so I can afford to offer those kits at the price I do?

So guess why your mark-up is 15% and mine cannot be. (PS- it isn't 70% like you suggest - Geesus) Is it just possible that Product A helps to pay for the manufacturing of Product B? You bet it is.

I'm glad we make the kit. Since Mark dropped Eibach's, there are no replacement springs available for the 928. I didn't want to make springs, so I made spring adapters so you could use any spring you want. Better I thought.

So your mark-up on pass-through (no value added) parts is 15%. Your'e a discounter. That's what they do. They move a lot of material at a low markup. Another example: you move a lot of OEM parts. Low mark-up, no value added, pass-through parts.

I am essentially a manufacturer. In contrast. we sell very few OEM parts. Although we are a licensed parts retailer by Porsche NA, I always left that to Mark A. Like you, he buys in quantities that I will not touch. Our mark-up is higher because we manufacture most of what we sell, or buy near what we need and re-manufacture it (value-added). That costs money. But then, we manufacture the stuff that you cannot buy OEM or elsewhere. And its a good thing we do.

ROG100

Please do not call me Rog as that is for friends, family and people who know me, only - my name to you is Roger. If you want me to start calling you something other than Carl I will be happy to oblige.

I have been in manufacturing since I was 18 and have run some of the largest manufacturing/machining houses in both the USA & the UK as well as set them up in India and China. As you do not know me from Adam please do not jump to conclusions in your efforts to try and prove a point.

Your manufacturing of parts is fully understandable and on those parts I am glad you make them and allow a choice in the 928 community. My business model is totally different to yours as manufacturing is not exactly the best way to make a living - my opinion. As I have told you in detail we do not even consider you a competitor as you are in a different product market.

So I accept that you have to mark up "significantly" all the Pass through products you sell to pay for all the manufactured/developed products - good answer - and shows why you are so expensive on pass through compared to everyone else.

I could not survive on a 15% margin as my overheads would not even be covered. My overall margin is better than that across the board. I buy well and sell well - and volume does help. The value add in my business is very significant as I personally spend 90% of my time advising and helping my customers with my knowledge and experience where I can.
Like you I hold very little stock as I leave that to the wholesalers and auto manufactures and ensure they deliver "just in time" to meet my customers needs.

As for not supplying parts with the products we sell - I call bull**** again. If we do not supply a part correctly or miss a part - yes it happens occasionally. The customer would call us - so I fail to understand why they would call you!!!!!! As you say you do not even stock the parts.

However when customers ask for the Koni adjustment tool I always refer them to you - so maybe that is muddling your thinking. I will add it to my products to save you the work.

Always a pleasure!

tv

I wish I could take personal credit for those, but they belong to Joe Cain of SoCal. Amazing work on that car, one of the best examples.

GlenL

Sorry I brought the 928 MS parts up.

The OP did say "price is not a factor" and, I think, the 928 MS market trends to more guys looking for performance with less cost-consciousness.

Carl, what's the cost of a complete, assembled set?