What to do with a car that sat
06-03-2014, 11:47 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
What to do with a car that sat
I'm looking at a low mileage 928 that has been in storage for ten years. Not running. What kind of problems am I looking at ?
06-03-2014, 11:58 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Aside from the obvious belts and possible rodent damage to wires, etc.. the head gaskets can be degraded from coolant degradation. This is an engine pull issue.
06-04-2014, 12:31 AM
#5
Nordschleife Master
Here you go.. from a previous thread on Jose's 15-years-sitting car:
https://rennlist.com/forums/8556884-post14.html
Note his car is non-interference.. if yours is a 32V then I'd consider replacing the belt before using the started to turn it over (78-84 are non-interference, as are early '85 16V Euro).
https://rennlist.com/forums/8556884-post14.html
Note his car is non-interference.. if yours is a 32V then I'd consider replacing the belt before using the started to turn it over (78-84 are non-interference, as are early '85 16V Euro).
Call me paranoid, but I'd go through several stages to address each system in turn.. and it may take you more than a weekend depending on how well it was stored and the state of the car.
Engine:
1. Clean the top side and vacuum the spark plug wells, then blow with high pressure air to remove anything that might fall in when you remove the plugs.
2. Remove the plugs, put a teaspoon of oil into each cylinder and replace the plugs.
3. Leave it for a while to let the oil spread its way around the rings.
4. Remove belt covers so you can see the timing belt
5. Go do ELECTRICAL and FUEL SYSTEM preparation steps below
6. After doing electrical and fuel system stuff, remove plugs, and turn the engine over by hand and watch the belt all the way around.
7. Drain the oil, replace with new 20W50 non-synthetic.
8. If all looks good, try turning it over with the starter (still with plugs out), and watch the belt, plus check to see if anything blows out the spark plug holes. Keep it cranking a few seconds until you see the oil pressure gauge rise.
9. Replace the spark plugs with new ones.
10. Put belt covers back together
11. LAST STEP AFTER ALL PARTS BELOW - plug ECU in and replace fuel pump fuse, and try starting.
Electrical system:
1. Clean the ground points and check the engine ground strap and battery box ground straps
2. Remove all the fuses and clean the fuse contacts
3. Inspect the electrical panel wiring for damage (rodents, cracking etc.) that could cause shorts and repair as necessary.
4. Inspect the 14-pin connector wires by the jump post and clean/repair any wires that look damaged
5. Inspect and repair any red wires in the battery box.
6. Make sure fuel pump fuse is removed and ignition ECU unplugged until you're ready to start the engine.
7. Install a freshly charged battery
8. Turn key to "on", wait 3s, then turn off, and look for any smoke (hopefully none as you've inspected all the hot wires and CE panel) - by now you've checked all the obvious wiring, but its still worth making sure you didn't miss any. If you see smoke, disconnect battery and start a long wiring diagnostic process.
Fuel system:
1. Drain the fuel tank, remove both the fuel pumps (78 has two external I believe?) and test both to make sure they run (don't let them run more than a second without fluid)
2. Drop the fuel tank and clean it out - there will be a lot of varnish deposition in there
3. Replace all rubber fuel lines including the return above the tank, and the ones to the expansion tank in the wheel arch, plus engine bay ones. (thanks tails for the reminder)
4. Once tank is clean put it back in along with the pumps
5. Add 10L fuel, a bottle or two of injector cleaner, and a new filter
6. Temporarily add fuel pump fuse back in and jumper the fuel pump circuit and let it run for a while - you want it to circulate the clean fuel and cleaner through the lines and back through the return to flush the system as much as possible. Then turn it off and leave it overnight to soak, and then run some more.
7. Measure fuel delivery at the return line while the pump is running - to make sure the main lines to the engine bay and back aren't blocked, and the pumps are working to spec.
I'd expect the above to take a long time - some of it may seem paranoid, but you really don't want to destroy the car by rushing.. 15 years will have seen corrosion, rodents, moisture, rubber hardening, insulation cracking, and more - so take your time.
After all that, and an attempt to start the engine, you may, if you're lucky, get the engine to fire and run briefly, albeit badly. If not, check spark and fuel
Then the troubleshooting of the CIS injection system begins - you'll probably need to get the injectors cleaned, the WUR and Fuel Distributor cleaned and rebuilt, and the control pressure set correctly. There will also likely be vacuum leaks and resulting timing issues too. Its also worth replacing the timing belt even though the motor is non-interference.. as it'll have taken a set after 15 years and you don't want it to break while driving around
Engine:
1. Clean the top side and vacuum the spark plug wells, then blow with high pressure air to remove anything that might fall in when you remove the plugs.
2. Remove the plugs, put a teaspoon of oil into each cylinder and replace the plugs.
3. Leave it for a while to let the oil spread its way around the rings.
4. Remove belt covers so you can see the timing belt
5. Go do ELECTRICAL and FUEL SYSTEM preparation steps below
6. After doing electrical and fuel system stuff, remove plugs, and turn the engine over by hand and watch the belt all the way around.
7. Drain the oil, replace with new 20W50 non-synthetic.
8. If all looks good, try turning it over with the starter (still with plugs out), and watch the belt, plus check to see if anything blows out the spark plug holes. Keep it cranking a few seconds until you see the oil pressure gauge rise.
9. Replace the spark plugs with new ones.
10. Put belt covers back together
11. LAST STEP AFTER ALL PARTS BELOW - plug ECU in and replace fuel pump fuse, and try starting.
Electrical system:
1. Clean the ground points and check the engine ground strap and battery box ground straps
2. Remove all the fuses and clean the fuse contacts
3. Inspect the electrical panel wiring for damage (rodents, cracking etc.) that could cause shorts and repair as necessary.
4. Inspect the 14-pin connector wires by the jump post and clean/repair any wires that look damaged
5. Inspect and repair any red wires in the battery box.
6. Make sure fuel pump fuse is removed and ignition ECU unplugged until you're ready to start the engine.
7. Install a freshly charged battery
8. Turn key to "on", wait 3s, then turn off, and look for any smoke (hopefully none as you've inspected all the hot wires and CE panel) - by now you've checked all the obvious wiring, but its still worth making sure you didn't miss any. If you see smoke, disconnect battery and start a long wiring diagnostic process.
Fuel system:
1. Drain the fuel tank, remove both the fuel pumps (78 has two external I believe?) and test both to make sure they run (don't let them run more than a second without fluid)
2. Drop the fuel tank and clean it out - there will be a lot of varnish deposition in there
3. Replace all rubber fuel lines including the return above the tank, and the ones to the expansion tank in the wheel arch, plus engine bay ones. (thanks tails for the reminder)
4. Once tank is clean put it back in along with the pumps
5. Add 10L fuel, a bottle or two of injector cleaner, and a new filter
6. Temporarily add fuel pump fuse back in and jumper the fuel pump circuit and let it run for a while - you want it to circulate the clean fuel and cleaner through the lines and back through the return to flush the system as much as possible. Then turn it off and leave it overnight to soak, and then run some more.
7. Measure fuel delivery at the return line while the pump is running - to make sure the main lines to the engine bay and back aren't blocked, and the pumps are working to spec.
I'd expect the above to take a long time - some of it may seem paranoid, but you really don't want to destroy the car by rushing.. 15 years will have seen corrosion, rodents, moisture, rubber hardening, insulation cracking, and more - so take your time.
After all that, and an attempt to start the engine, you may, if you're lucky, get the engine to fire and run briefly, albeit badly. If not, check spark and fuel
Then the troubleshooting of the CIS injection system begins - you'll probably need to get the injectors cleaned, the WUR and Fuel Distributor cleaned and rebuilt, and the control pressure set correctly. There will also likely be vacuum leaks and resulting timing issues too. Its also worth replacing the timing belt even though the motor is non-interference.. as it'll have taken a set after 15 years and you don't want it to break while driving around
06-04-2014, 02:39 AM
#7
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Plan on replacing all rubber hoses, lines, and belts. All fluid including coolant, fuel, psp, flushing brakes, clutch if applicable. Replacing plugs, possibly distributor and wires. Replacing filters, fuel, oil, air. New battery. Once this is all done then you can diagnose for running and electric problems. I have done all of this on mine, and have spent about $5k just on that list.
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06-04-2014, 08:29 AM
#8
Instructor
Sounds like a good project. Did you figure out if it's an 86.5? Also if you look under the carpet in trunk and see option codes sticker a desirable one is 220, Limited Slip Diff.
My car had tires on it with date code of 1990 but the car was running and had a few service items recently done. I'm around 3k into parts,mostly for the engine but including wheels and tires in that which is 1k itself. Bare this in mind when making offers.
All the best,
JB
My car had tires on it with date code of 1990 but the car was running and had a few service items recently done. I'm around 3k into parts,mostly for the engine but including wheels and tires in that which is 1k itself. Bare this in mind when making offers.
All the best,
JB
06-04-2014, 01:28 PM
#9
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Perhaps the most important questions will be about why it was parked. A typical scenario includes something that happened to the car that was too expensive to fix at the time. You have that to deal with, the $5k min rubber parts budget, plus any other major time related damage.
06-04-2014, 03:05 PM
#10
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I think a very important question no one has asked:
Will you be doing your own work, or going to a mechanic?
If you don't do any of the work on your own, you can just about double your budget. Especially if there is something that needs to be diagnosed!
Will you be doing your own work, or going to a mechanic?
If you don't do any of the work on your own, you can just about double your budget. Especially if there is something that needs to be diagnosed!
06-04-2014, 03:19 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
10 years is a long time to lie dormant without care. Even in the best of environments, something as trifle as the status of the leather seats could become not so trifling a matter if not tended to for this length of time. Then there is all the electrical, mechanical rehab. If you're doing it, are you up for the commitment ? If someone else is, is you wallet up to it ?
06-04-2014, 05:11 PM
#12
Addict
Rennlist Member
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My 79 sat for 11 years, outside. Its been a fun project but as mentioned, costs can add up FAST. Plan on doing ALL work yourself to even have it start making financial sense.
We do these cars for FUN not profit but with that said, there are many to choose from. Choose WISELY!
We do these cars for FUN not profit but with that said, there are many to choose from. Choose WISELY!
06-04-2014, 11:43 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
06-04-2014, 11:47 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
06-05-2014, 12:03 AM
#15
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Reminds me of a car a local friend just picked up.
1990 BWM M3, one owner, low miles. Interior and paint is 8/10.
It has been in storage for the past 10-11 years.
There are holes in the floor (under the carpet) the rust is so bad. That is what happens when you store a good car without some kind of vapor barrier underneath.
Yes he knew this going in.
1990 BWM M3, one owner, low miles. Interior and paint is 8/10.
It has been in storage for the past 10-11 years.
There are holes in the floor (under the carpet) the rust is so bad. That is what happens when you store a good car without some kind of vapor barrier underneath.
Yes he knew this going in.