Recharging your A/C...Check this out
08-03-2003, 10:56 AM
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Recharging your A/C...Check this out
Came across this while looking for info for myself. Don't know the cost but I did find this very interestinghttp://www.duracool.com-main.html
08-03-2003, 11:01 AM
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08-03-2003, 11:16 AM
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I used this stuff:
http://www.btt.7p.com/AR/
I had a slow leak which their sealer dealt with right away. Now my standard (no rear AC) system will freeze me out of the car when it's 95 degrees out. My R12 system would leak down to 50 psi and then stop, so I did not have to evacuate it, I just added a can of ProDry, then ProSeal, then filled the system up to 225psi on the high side. I did it two weeks ago and no sign of a leak. It cost about $60-$70 and I have a can of the ProSeal left over.
-Joel.
http://www.btt.7p.com/AR/
I had a slow leak which their sealer dealt with right away. Now my standard (no rear AC) system will freeze me out of the car when it's 95 degrees out. My R12 system would leak down to 50 psi and then stop, so I did not have to evacuate it, I just added a can of ProDry, then ProSeal, then filled the system up to 225psi on the high side. I did it two weeks ago and no sign of a leak. It cost about $60-$70 and I have a can of the ProSeal left over.
-Joel.
Last edited by Jfrahm; 08-03-2003 at 11:30 PM.
08-03-2003, 12:20 PM
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Hey Jim...If you don't mind me asking, is the cost in line with the price of a retrofit to 134a? My curiousity has been peaked ....might give it a go if it is reasonable...tnx
Bill
Bill
08-04-2003, 12:27 AM
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I got my duracool for around 70 bucks (12 cans)...there is an ad for the stuff in the back of excellence magazine...think they ship from tennessee. That was the only cost for me as it is R12 compatible..thus I just needed to put it in and go..total out of pocket was about 70 bucks!...and I have 10 cans left!
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08-04-2003, 12:27 AM
#8
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I'd say don't use it.
Duracool is BUTANE! Thats right it's it's about the same stuff as LPG. Well, not exactly. It's a specific combonation of isomers mixed to the proper specs.
If you can't tell, it's VERY flamable, and it's blended. These are two bad things for a refergerent. The EPA calls it a unsuitable relacement for R12 because of that.
If your going to go with a drop in replacement for R12, uses something nonflamable. Freeze 12 is non flamable, it's blended, but it deffently works. I've used it on my car, blew very cold. However, one of my 20 year old, rotten seals broke. It was a very hot day, and the seal just blew out, that simple, almost certainly not related to the refergerent, but related to the fact that it wasn't charged for at least a year, probaly more, as it was a northern car, and the POs PO didn't have a/c when he purchashed it. That and it was 100`+F, and I was in traffic...
If I had been useing duracool, I could have very easily blown myself up. Put at least a 1000g of Butane into the passangers cabin, add a spark from a relay, or smokeing, and watch the explosion.
I'm told it's illeagle to be used as a refergerent in the state of Texas.
Just my suggestion.
Duracool is BUTANE! Thats right it's it's about the same stuff as LPG. Well, not exactly. It's a specific combonation of isomers mixed to the proper specs.
If you can't tell, it's VERY flamable, and it's blended. These are two bad things for a refergerent. The EPA calls it a unsuitable relacement for R12 because of that.
If your going to go with a drop in replacement for R12, uses something nonflamable. Freeze 12 is non flamable, it's blended, but it deffently works. I've used it on my car, blew very cold. However, one of my 20 year old, rotten seals broke. It was a very hot day, and the seal just blew out, that simple, almost certainly not related to the refergerent, but related to the fact that it wasn't charged for at least a year, probaly more, as it was a northern car, and the POs PO didn't have a/c when he purchashed it. That and it was 100`+F, and I was in traffic...
If I had been useing duracool, I could have very easily blown myself up. Put at least a 1000g of Butane into the passangers cabin, add a spark from a relay, or smokeing, and watch the explosion.
I'm told it's illeagle to be used as a refergerent in the state of Texas.
Just my suggestion.
08-04-2003, 12:54 AM
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A quick Google turned up these links.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
http://www3.gov.ab.ca/hre/whs/public.../pdf/ch058.pdf
What is the legal status of hydrocarbon refrigerants such as HC-12a® and DURACOOL®?
It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace CFC-12 with the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application other than industrial process refrigeration. The same prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18, 1994. Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is also subject to the same restrictions.
HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, is not the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B and has not been submitted for SNAP review. OZ Technology is therefore prohibited from marketing this blend as a substitute for any ozone-depleting substance. In addition, any use of this blend as a substitute for CFC-12 or any other ozone-depleting chemical, in industrial process refrigeration or any other refrigeration or A/C end use, is prohibited under the Clean Air Act.
Since HC-12a®, as submitted for SNAP review, is chemically different from HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, and since it has a different legal status under the Clean Air Act, users of any substance marketed as HC-12a® should be aware of which HC-12a® they have purchased.
Note that the Clean Air Act does not regulate the use of any of these hydrocarbon refrigerants when they are used as replacements for non-ozone-depleting chemicals such as HFC-134a. However, many states prohibit using flammable refrigerants in motor vehicles, regardless of which original refrigerant was used in the vehicle.
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
http://www3.gov.ab.ca/hre/whs/public.../pdf/ch058.pdf
What is the legal status of hydrocarbon refrigerants such as HC-12a® and DURACOOL®?
It has been illegal since July 13, 1995 to replace CFC-12 with the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review in any refrigeration or A/C application other than industrial process refrigeration. The same prohibition for OZ-12® took effect on April 18, 1994. Because DURACOOL 12a® has the same chemical composition as the HC-12a® formulation that was submitted for SNAP review (i.e., Hydrocarbon Blend B), DURACOOL 12a® is also subject to the same restrictions.
HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, is not the same as Hydrocarbon Blend B and has not been submitted for SNAP review. OZ Technology is therefore prohibited from marketing this blend as a substitute for any ozone-depleting substance. In addition, any use of this blend as a substitute for CFC-12 or any other ozone-depleting chemical, in industrial process refrigeration or any other refrigeration or A/C end use, is prohibited under the Clean Air Act.
Since HC-12a®, as submitted for SNAP review, is chemically different from HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, and since it has a different legal status under the Clean Air Act, users of any substance marketed as HC-12a® should be aware of which HC-12a® they have purchased.
Note that the Clean Air Act does not regulate the use of any of these hydrocarbon refrigerants when they are used as replacements for non-ozone-depleting chemicals such as HFC-134a. However, many states prohibit using flammable refrigerants in motor vehicles, regardless of which original refrigerant was used in the vehicle.
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.
08-04-2003, 01:26 AM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Here's something else.
According to Enviro-Safes MSDS sheet, ES-12a is to avoid high temps, open flames, and SPARKS, because it can burn. It is a hydrocarbon. It can explode. I wish I had which hydrocarbon it was, but it's gotta be a mix of isomers of butane, propane, and or pentane. They are all highly flamable.
According to dupont MSDS on R-134a is to avoid high temps, and open flames because it can decompose.
Take your pick, R134a can decompose under high tempetures and pressures, or possibly even burn under high temps and pressures. This will form poisions gases. ES-12a can EXPLODE at atmospheric pressure. So can Duracool.
You decide. (Oh, also since ES-12a is flamable, I belive it is also illegal to use as a refergerent in the state of Texas.)
Btw, next week I will be converting to R-134a. I will be doing the work myself, and can get back to you after I'm done on how it went.
According to Enviro-Safes MSDS sheet, ES-12a is to avoid high temps, open flames, and SPARKS, because it can burn. It is a hydrocarbon. It can explode. I wish I had which hydrocarbon it was, but it's gotta be a mix of isomers of butane, propane, and or pentane. They are all highly flamable.
According to dupont MSDS on R-134a is to avoid high temps, and open flames because it can decompose.
Take your pick, R134a can decompose under high tempetures and pressures, or possibly even burn under high temps and pressures. This will form poisions gases. ES-12a can EXPLODE at atmospheric pressure. So can Duracool.
You decide. (Oh, also since ES-12a is flamable, I belive it is also illegal to use as a refergerent in the state of Texas.)
Btw, next week I will be converting to R-134a. I will be doing the work myself, and can get back to you after I'm done on how it went.
08-04-2003, 12:13 PM
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My next-door neibour is the owner of Duracool. I will try to show him some of your comments and write back with his comments/info.
I have been using Duracool in my Audi for the past 2 years, and it has been fabulous. The car had a slow leak that would deplete the system every 3 months, but since we put the Duracool in the car, the A/C has blown cold for 2 1/2 years.
I have been using Duracool in my Audi for the past 2 years, and it has been fabulous. The car had a slow leak that would deplete the system every 3 months, but since we put the Duracool in the car, the A/C has blown cold for 2 1/2 years.
08-04-2003, 02:57 PM
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Here we go again.
1) There are DOZENS of "refrigerants" that YOU can put in YOUR car, especially if you don't happen to care about technicalities like breaking the law.
2) Almost all of these "refrigerants" WILL WORK.
3) Many of them contain hydrocarbons, and are flammable under all conditions, and explosive under some.
4) Many of them are blends of different compounds. These compounds leak from the system at differing rates, so that after a few months, you no longer have the same blend that you started with. It is impossible to add a blend to an unknown mix and get the same blend that you started with.
5) Almost every one of these "refrigerants" cost much more than the only really practical substitute for R-12, R-134a. The last R-134a that I bought cost me less than $2 a can at Costco.
6) Every commercial shop that services A/C MUST HAVE a dedicated recovery system for EVERY refrigerant that they handle. Most shops have one for R-12, and one for R-134a. If you tell them that you have anything else, they won't touch your car. If you don't tell them, and you are responsible for their recovery system getting cross-contaminated with anything other than what it is designated to handle, YOU are legally and financially responsible for a VERY expensive decontamination procedure, including disposal of the "toxic waste" created by your actions.
7) R-12 works fine. It is VERY expensive, and requires certification to buy.
8) R-134a works fine. It requires no certification to buy, and is probably the cheapest refrigerant available. It is what Porsche selected for use in their factory systems. It is one of the two refrigerants that will allow your car to be professionally repaired in most cases.
When my sons were young, there was a principal that I hammered into their skulls over and over. If someone gives you advice, ask yourself, "Does this person make money if I follow their advice?"
Your car, your money, your choice.
1) There are DOZENS of "refrigerants" that YOU can put in YOUR car, especially if you don't happen to care about technicalities like breaking the law.
2) Almost all of these "refrigerants" WILL WORK.
3) Many of them contain hydrocarbons, and are flammable under all conditions, and explosive under some.
4) Many of them are blends of different compounds. These compounds leak from the system at differing rates, so that after a few months, you no longer have the same blend that you started with. It is impossible to add a blend to an unknown mix and get the same blend that you started with.
5) Almost every one of these "refrigerants" cost much more than the only really practical substitute for R-12, R-134a. The last R-134a that I bought cost me less than $2 a can at Costco.
6) Every commercial shop that services A/C MUST HAVE a dedicated recovery system for EVERY refrigerant that they handle. Most shops have one for R-12, and one for R-134a. If you tell them that you have anything else, they won't touch your car. If you don't tell them, and you are responsible for their recovery system getting cross-contaminated with anything other than what it is designated to handle, YOU are legally and financially responsible for a VERY expensive decontamination procedure, including disposal of the "toxic waste" created by your actions.
7) R-12 works fine. It is VERY expensive, and requires certification to buy.
8) R-134a works fine. It requires no certification to buy, and is probably the cheapest refrigerant available. It is what Porsche selected for use in their factory systems. It is one of the two refrigerants that will allow your car to be professionally repaired in most cases.
When my sons were young, there was a principal that I hammered into their skulls over and over. If someone gives you advice, ask yourself, "Does this person make money if I follow their advice?"
Your car, your money, your choice.
08-04-2003, 03:57 PM
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It was not my intention to open a can of worms here with this topic..
I merely tripped over this while looking for a kit in Canada to recharge the A/C in the shark. Wally is right, to each there own but beware the consequences of your actions. Thinking the situation over, a complete overhaul and retrofit to 134A, would be the smart choice.
Bill
I merely tripped over this while looking for a kit in Canada to recharge the A/C in the shark. Wally is right, to each there own but beware the consequences of your actions. Thinking the situation over, a complete overhaul and retrofit to 134A, would be the smart choice.
Bill
