Alan

Ahh - sorry about that (was supposed to be '89) too many days looking at numbers... give me more words... ahhh!

In any case ROW is still crushing the USA here...

Alan

Vilhuer

I haven't looked into '92 vs '93 differencees. If there are any they will exist in 88 vs 103 US+Canada cars same way as in ROW cars. There are few ROW '93 GTS around here so it might be possible to check '93 also but it could take some time. First step would be to check possible differencees between 1993-1 and 1993-2 US model wiring diagrams and what they say about fuses and relays.

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all ROW are equal. IIRR '81-82 Japanise cars had their own L-Jetronic engine type and other MY used US model engine which can mean differencees to CE board compared to other ROW cars. Later Japanise cars had catalytic converter temp monitor etc. Also '92-95 RHD cars didn't have airbag dash and '92 didn't have bag wheel either. Then there are optional changes like '86 MY 16V vs 32V engines. It can be difficult to be absolutely sure all CE board possibilities are covered but lets do what we can.

the flyin' scotsman

Alan.....my GTS is somewhat of an oddball in that it was sold new in Montreal May 92 so build was at the very start of the year, its a North American car as are all 928s sold new in Canada (I believe) but as the GTS was not sold in USA until 93 it could be considered a ROW......not sure. All I know is the above, have docs to prove, its a 5 speed so quite unique.

The CE panel diagram is dated 3/91 with part # 928.610.320.03

Relays are per your diagram with a minor correction; in position 19 the Porsche doc shows numeral X1X (you have 1XX)

Fuses are per your diagram; location, rating and function.

Relay III is in place for DRL......depending on country I believe this was year dependant.

Let me know if you need me to look at anything else.

Vilhuer

Its one of 88 US model cars made between 01/92 - 08/92. Most of the 88 + 102 early + late '93 model year US cars were made in 1992 calendar year as about half of the 102 were done between 08/92 - 12/92.

Out of 88 early cars 75 were US and 13 Canadian. Factory considers them as 1992 model year with M718 option meaning just VIN tags were changed to P = 1993 MY.

Not sold in US in 1992 is wrong. Not made during early part of '92 MY in 08/91 - 12/91 would be more correct.

the flyin' scotsman

thx Erkka......did not realise there were 75 GTSs sold in US as 1992s.

As stated my car was sold and registered in 1992 and yes does have a "P" VIN which differs from the ROW 1992 GTSs that have a "N" VIN I believe. Another consideration is that it was sold in May so considering build time and shipping to Canada it was very early in the production cycle.

Alan

Malcolm thanks! (fast!)

X1X (you have 1XX) - just me not thinking - easy fix (will apply to all S4+years I think)

I'll put you down as a 92 US for grins (doesn't really make much difference)

Are you aware of any equipment etc differences betwen your car and other '93 USA GTSs?

Alan

Alan

Tally List (so far - add yourselves): (• = completed & FB recvd).

78 - LT Texan (Dan)
79 - ROG100 (Roger)
80 -
81 - Jeff Bowlsby (Jeff)
82 - ROG100 (Roger)
83 -
84 -
85 -
86 - neilh (Neil)
86.5 - Hernanca (Carlos)
87 -
• 88 - Martins (Martin) (CA)
89 - Bill Ball (Bill)
90 - Ed Scherer (Ed)
91 - rbrtmchl (Bob)
• 92 - the flyin' scotsman (Malcolm) (CA)
• 93 - worf928 (Dave)
94 - Gary Knox (Gary)
95 -

Other ROW cars:
78 - ROG100 (Roger)
79 -
80 - ROG100 (Roger)
81 - Vilhuer (Erkka)
82 - Dave928S (Dave)
83 - jp (John)
84 - neilh (Neil)
85 - Mrmerlin (Stan)/ Wisconsin Joe (Joe)
86 -
87 - Vilhuer (Erkka)
88 - ROG100 (Roger)
89 - Leon Speed (Aryan)
90 - Vilhuer (Erkka)
91 -
92 - Vilhuer (Erkka)
93 -
94 - Arnoud (Arnoud)
95 - Dave928S (Dave)

Alan

All good points... I did check fuse & relays between 93 & 93/2 and they seem to be unchanged. There must be other differences to justify a whole different wiring diagram set, but its odd it doesn't detail the serial# switch point (unless I missed it). I do assume '92 is like whats shown for '93.

In the S4+ models there really isn't that much different between USA & ROW (lighting: but doesn't affect fuses/relays much) and as you say the ROW country specific differences are probaly actually bigger.

Fortunately though most of those still don't affect the Fuses & Relays very much at all...

Alan

the flyin' scotsman

I believe the differences are country specific in that Canadian cars have DRL, heated seats, no rear air as standard config.

The DRL operate the front fog lights and dash but not the other marker or taillights.

The car is calibrated for metric readouts which I assume are per the ROW cars so the speedo, temps mileage etc reflect kilometers, celcius, litres etc.

the flyin' scotsman

Alan.....we have a number of ex-Japan cars in Canada which seem to be configured as ROW cars from a lighting perspective with the CE very same (identical?) as my Canadian S4. These cars are LHD and unsure how that differs from cars exported to that part of the world that are RHD (Auz etc).

Hope this helps somewhat.....let me know if you need anything additional from a Canadian perspective

Vilhuer

1993-1 is used for WP0AA292_PS815061 - 815148
1993-2 is used for WP0AA292_PS820061 - 820162

There isn't that much difference between some other MY either but factory saw need for different diagrams for each MY. They just got lazy in '95 and didn't bother to print same data again for last few hundred cars.

martinss

delete

worf928

I checked the '93 diagram against the CEL cover card and the wiring diagrams.

One result to note that might be applicable to other MY (IIRC I've run across this before) is that the mirror switch is on a different fuse - according to the diagrams - depending upon memory or no-memory.

For seat/mirror memory it's on fuse 25 (not 40.)

Differences from CEL card:
Fuse 17: add Alarm and Turn Signal (switch I assume, but not shown in WSM)
Fuse 25: clock and diagnosis circuit

Differences from WSM:
Fuse 10: add stop light switch
Fuse 17: add Alarm
Fuse 27: Hazard and Turn Signal Switch(es)
Fuse 41: clock (yes, another one, and no, the bulb feeds through dimmer)

martinss

Review of ’87-’88 Porsche 928 Fuse and Relay – per chart Rev 1.0 2/2014 Alan C. Moore

Comparison car: WP0JB0928JS860110 1988 S4 Automatic – Model for Canada, Manufactured 07/87

CE panel has p/n 928.510.105.16

CE Connector Plugs
All are used except L (White) and R (Lilac), which are empty: http://s1229.photobucket.com/user/ms...92be7.jpg.html

Relays
History: All relays as received with car, except:
1. All 53B which were replaced with Meyle versions (100.951.0001) from Roger
2. VI: Power windows which was defective and replaced with a used relay from an earlier car

Findings
A number of the relays have production dates (in Euro form of DD/MM/YY) on their cases. These are noted below as confirmation of original version as of car production date.
I-II: As shown, Defroster, produced 04/06/87
III: As shown, not used
IV: As shown, X-Bus
V: Variant: Flasher Fitted with VW-Audi 111.953.227D cf. 1H0.953.227 as shown in ACM chart. PET shows 111.953.227D
VI: As shown with proviso, Power window, but fitted with old version 928.615.126.00 3/05/85 – in service replacement, so ignore.
VII: As shown, Delay wiper, specifically 928.615.101.01 – chart has 00 and 01 versions shown
VIII: As shown, Def, 53B
IX: As shown, Intensive wash, 928.618.113.01 – note ACM chart has duplicate versions 01/01 shown. Was this intended as 00/01?
X: As shown, HVAC, 53B
XI: As shown, Suppressor 25/05/87
XII: As shown, Dual horns, 53B
XIII: As shown, Foglights
XIV: As shown, Starter, 53B
XV: As shown, Kick-down, production 04/12/86 installed
XVI: As shown, EZK
XVII: As shown with proviso, ABS – note ACM chart is missing leading A for Auto option, production 11/03/87
XVIII: As shown, Cooling air flaps
IXX: As shown, Headlamp wash – question: should this be ‘washer’
XX: As shown, Fuel pump, 53B
XXI: As shown, Interior light delay
XXII: Issue?: Reverse light, currently has 53B installed, not 928.615.114.00 as per ACM chart for auto. 928 Specialists charts, old and latest, show 53B for auto. AutoAtlanta shows (http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...=92861511400#a) 928.615.114.00 replaced with 928.615.114.01, not 53B. But PET Online (http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf...91_KATALOG.pdf) shows 53B as acceptable
XXIII-XXIV: Issue: Combination headlamp, 928.618.107.01 not .04 version as per ACM chart. Installed has production date of 5/06/87, so likely correct version for early ’88 is .01, with .04 as a valid substitute per PET (http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf...91_KATALOG.pdf)
XXV: As shown, LH, 53B
XXVI: As shown, not used

Fuses
All fuses were replaced initially per an earlier 928 Specialists chart for ’87-’88. In reviewing the latest chart a number of changes have been made, mostly aligning with the ACM draft chart.
Originals fuses on the car when purchased from the PO were noted before being removed.
Summary: All fuses as currently installed are as per ACM chart, except for the following:
#2: 20 Amp installed per 928 Spec old version, now listed as 25. 928 Int shows 20. ACM chart shows 25. Original was 30 – correct tbd but likely 25
#5: 15 Amp installed per 928 Spec old version, now listed as 25. 928 Int shows 15. ACM chart shows 25. Original was 20 – correct tbd but likely 25
#6: 5 installed per old 928 Spec, new version shows 7.5. 928 Int shows 5. ACM chart shows 7.5 which was what was installed – ACM chart likely correct
#7: 15 installed per old 928 Spec, new version shows 5. 928 Int shows 15. ACM chart shows 5 which was what was installed – ACM chart likely correct
#9: Not installed – optional telephone.
#13: Not installed (Canadian version) – optional rear A/C
#16: 10 installed, chart shows 15 which is what was installed – ACM chart likely correct

Alan

Martin - thanks for a very comprehensive report - excellent - I will check all your notes.

Alan