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Looks like the overall shape, bends etc are the same. the materials and collector flange are the only difference.
If that's true, the intellectual property claims are more plausible on their face. However, the principals of header design are fairly well understood. Given the cramped engine compartment of a 928, there's not a lot flexibility in the overall shape until you get to the collector. That is, it wouldn't be unbelievable for two designers working independently to come up with substantially similar designs. Identical designs -- down to a fraction of a millimeter? That might be considered virtually impossible. So similar you'd have to look really closely to tell the difference? Not so much.
Which is why such products are so hard to protect (and rightly so) under our intellectual property rights laws. Those laws are designed to protect innovation; they are not designed to bar potential competitors from applying generally understood principals to enter a market just because you applied those principals first.
Note: I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV. I have had several clients for whom intellectual property rights were a big deal, so I've a fairly good understanding of the area. ("Fairly good understanding" = "enough to be dangerous".)
I hope you can find a way to not let them get away with it.
Danglerb
Small bump in the defendants getting the ebay listings down, there were several more MSDS part numbers involved in this IPR case . There may be penalties assessed for each day this is not cured. The legal team is also busy notifying distributors of these part numbers.
Marty
David,
this was a detailed IPR case, and extremely interesting on how it was (so to speak) assembled. You are off in left field with your analogy, but since the defendant did not stipulate "Off of public record" I can provide whomever I want with copies of the case. Makes for good reading !
Marty
"Interesting" as this is appears to be... one has to ask if ORIGINAL header companies like Hedman & Doug's ever sued the domestic 'upstarts' like Hooker, Blackjack & MSDS or the European ones like Borla, Billy Boat or Bursch? I know Hedman is still in business... not sure about Doug Thorley.
I always preferred the R&D and quality control of the Hooker designs -even if they were only available in mild steel.
David,
this was a detailed IPR case, and extremely interesting on how it was (so to speak) assembled. You are off in left field with your analogy, but since the defendant did not stipulate "Off of public record" I can provide whomever I want with copies of the case. Makes for good reading !
Marty
Marty - I hope you were not offended by my remarks. As for my being off in left field, I've played that field a lot and it's familiar territory. I'd love to read whatever materials you have. Perhaps you could post a link to the court filings so those with the interest and time can wade through the weeds.
"Interesting" as this is appears to be... one has to ask if ORIGINAL header companies like Hedman & Doug's ever sued the domestic 'upstarts' like Hooker, Blackjack & MSDS or the European ones like Borla, Billy Boat or Bursch? I know Hedman is still in business... not sure about Doug Thorley.
I always preferred the R&D and quality control of the Hooker designs -even if they were only available in mild steel.
There are really NO original header companies, maybe the original exhaust pipe that was hand formed on the engine of Herr Benz's first ottomibile! If you are referring to the Speed Shop days of the 50's 60's + 70's, and dozens of header brands...every manufacturer took pride not to copy anothers design. There were some not-too-long ago legal antics when Doug +Bette Thorley split up and settled into 2 seperate entities. Bette manufactured with the trade name Doug Thorley Headers. Doug was known as Headers by Doug during the '80s, and was downsized to a custom exhaust shop. Since we were always good buds, a
handshake later we were building his product , approx. 250 sets a month
alongside our MSDS headers in our plant. When Bette passed on, her
company was sold off . Doug later sold to Patriot Headers (Pertronix).The
original Tri-y design Chevy, Ford, Mopar header was Doug's
innovation.
but the IPR may have went with Bette's company. I don't know how
long that battled in court !
Marty
Correct if they were current - according to the Maltese Falcon they were designed and tooled prior to 1985. So non-recurring has long been recovered and as they require no further design input costs should be driven down. Parts are now just a "cash cow" and it should have been easy to compete with an offshore supplier - just protecting your large profit margin does not work in the modern World.
I didn't know MSDS went back that long ago, ****! That kind of changes things then.
Just bought a set £500 uk money inc shipping which £160 was shipping cost took three days from states . Had to turn flanges down to get a good fitt only got to make X pipe now for fitment.
[QUOTE=potdog;15281013]Just bought a set £500 uk money inc shipping which £160 was shipping cost took three days from states . Had to turn flanges down to get a good fitt only got to make X pipe now
Hi how did fitting the headers go? Did you use the original Porsche O ring metal gaskets on the manifold or the ones supplied with the headers?
Ok since this thread was brought back from the dead I will play as well ; )
Whats the status of 16v header availability? I have the original MSDS gen 1's with jet hot coating. They still perform very well, some surgface rust but we are talking original from around 35 years ago, car came with the original brochure.
My problem is not being able to service the clutch or lower the bellhousing without loosening this set. Would prefer an updated design if possible.
Ok since this thread was brought back from the dead I will play as well ; )
Whats the status of 16v header availability? I have the original MSDS gen 1's with jet hot coating. They still perform very well, some surgface rust but we are talking original from around 35 years ago, car came with the original brochure.
My problem is not being able to service the clutch or lower the bellhousing without loosening this set. Would prefer an updated design if possible.
I see it as a minor inconvenience. I had to drop the bell-housing on my 79 this past weekend. It didn't take that long nor was it all that difficult to loosen the nuts on the passenger side header & the housing fell right off (literally, I had already removed the starter, slave cylinder and all the bolts).
02-04-2014, 07:35 PM
