Flush Console Project Description
12-30-2013, 12:31 PM
#47
Electron Wrangler
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Hi Alan. After posting about the new idea for the joint between the inserts I looked at it in respect to the router jigs and one of the top inserts. What I did was slightly modify the jig for the first two openings so that it will move the top opening down about a 16th of an inch, and the result is moving both of them down the same, of course, assuming I don't reposition the insert before routing out the second, the lower opening.
When I did both of these first openings in the piece we are showing here I was a little surprised to find the bottom opening right at the top of the bottom flange with no material left over on to the face of it. That in fact is what has started me thinking about this new method of finishing these without the joint showing. So, with the bottom opening moved a 16th of an inch down also that pretty much puts the HVAC Panels right at the bottom with no insert showing at all. So the first Jig is essentilally set to go.
However, when I put the insert into the jig for the Double DIN opening I find that that opening shows up right at the bottom of the top opening for some reason. Even without the move by a 16th the center opening is much too close to the top opening. I know before that it was pretty close to the top and farther from the bottom, but I can't remember why. For now I need to start mocking up the upper insert with the air vent items, the Nav Unit and the HVAC panels to see just what I ought to do with the jig for the center hole.
In response to your post, Alan, I have gone over this change in the design all night and it occurs to me that I have no idea where the thought came from to put some material onto the top flange of the lower insert. Changing the upper inser this little bit and moving the components at the top and bottom only a 16th of an inch, for esthetics essentially, doesn't do anything to the relation of the inserts to each other except hide about 90 percent of the joint.
It may be that putting some ABS on the outside of the top flange of the lower insert will work and will add that much (about 3/32 inch) to the face of the lower insert, and it will also make the corners and the edge more crisp, which will also help with the disappearing joint, but it is going to make the inserts a bit tighter. Probably not a bad thing.
In other words, we are not really going to end up with much more surface on the upper face of the lower insert. (I guess I could have just said that and avoided much of this post.)
When I did both of these first openings in the piece we are showing here I was a little surprised to find the bottom opening right at the top of the bottom flange with no material left over on to the face of it. That in fact is what has started me thinking about this new method of finishing these without the joint showing. So, with the bottom opening moved a 16th of an inch down also that pretty much puts the HVAC Panels right at the bottom with no insert showing at all. So the first Jig is essentilally set to go.
However, when I put the insert into the jig for the Double DIN opening I find that that opening shows up right at the bottom of the top opening for some reason. Even without the move by a 16th the center opening is much too close to the top opening. I know before that it was pretty close to the top and farther from the bottom, but I can't remember why. For now I need to start mocking up the upper insert with the air vent items, the Nav Unit and the HVAC panels to see just what I ought to do with the jig for the center hole.
In response to your post, Alan, I have gone over this change in the design all night and it occurs to me that I have no idea where the thought came from to put some material onto the top flange of the lower insert. Changing the upper inser this little bit and moving the components at the top and bottom only a 16th of an inch, for esthetics essentially, doesn't do anything to the relation of the inserts to each other except hide about 90 percent of the joint.
It may be that putting some ABS on the outside of the top flange of the lower insert will work and will add that much (about 3/32 inch) to the face of the lower insert, and it will also make the corners and the edge more crisp, which will also help with the disappearing joint, but it is going to make the inserts a bit tighter. Probably not a bad thing.
In other words, we are not really going to end up with much more surface on the upper face of the lower insert. (I guess I could have just said that and avoided much of this post.)
Alan
12-30-2013, 03:12 PM
#48
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
Hi Alan. Its good that you keep thinking about these things. I hope you don't take it wrong when I may tend to shoot some of your ideas down. The difference between you and me is that I have already been to the end of this project both in fact and certainly in my mind, multiple times in respect to the latter.
First, even though there is a bit of the bottom flange remaining on the upper insert in some of the pictures, I think, that will be removed at the end and just before covering the insert with leather. The reason it is still there now is so that I can clamp to it in order to keep the bottom ears from vibrating when I finish routing them. In fact, you might notice the glob of ABS glue on the face of the bottom right ear in the picture. That is put there to fill the gap made my the router when I first routed the bottom opening out. I didn't have the bottom clamped in place and when the opening was nearly finished the router was causing the bottom to vibrate violently which resulted in it chewing out too much material. The nice thing about ABS and its glue is that it can be used to fill in such flaws and then sanded to finish before covering. Next time I'll clamp it better.
As to joining the top insert to the bottom insert, I don't think that is ever going to happen. At this point I think that with the new design which eliminates about 90 percent of the joint by simply hiding it at the bottom of the AC panels is about as good as it is going to get. I think that the remaining half inch or so of combined joint that will be visible is a small price to pay for the accomodation needed to put these two inserts into play.
For example, I envision the bottom insert being fully assembled with the leather boot screwed in place and even covering the 5-speed shifter which will first be fastened to the shift stick then with the insert being lowered down over it and into place in the console. I think that trying to do this with the entire flush insert in one piece, with heavy items in the upper insert and the need to carefully locate it over the Double DIN unit which will be in the console is just more than I think it is worth to avoid the now tiny evidence of a joint.
There really is no particular need that I can envision to keep the two inserts located WRT each other any better that what we have going already.
Just my thoughts on it.
First, even though there is a bit of the bottom flange remaining on the upper insert in some of the pictures, I think, that will be removed at the end and just before covering the insert with leather. The reason it is still there now is so that I can clamp to it in order to keep the bottom ears from vibrating when I finish routing them. In fact, you might notice the glob of ABS glue on the face of the bottom right ear in the picture. That is put there to fill the gap made my the router when I first routed the bottom opening out. I didn't have the bottom clamped in place and when the opening was nearly finished the router was causing the bottom to vibrate violently which resulted in it chewing out too much material. The nice thing about ABS and its glue is that it can be used to fill in such flaws and then sanded to finish before covering. Next time I'll clamp it better.
As to joining the top insert to the bottom insert, I don't think that is ever going to happen. At this point I think that with the new design which eliminates about 90 percent of the joint by simply hiding it at the bottom of the AC panels is about as good as it is going to get. I think that the remaining half inch or so of combined joint that will be visible is a small price to pay for the accomodation needed to put these two inserts into play.
For example, I envision the bottom insert being fully assembled with the leather boot screwed in place and even covering the 5-speed shifter which will first be fastened to the shift stick then with the insert being lowered down over it and into place in the console. I think that trying to do this with the entire flush insert in one piece, with heavy items in the upper insert and the need to carefully locate it over the Double DIN unit which will be in the console is just more than I think it is worth to avoid the now tiny evidence of a joint.
There really is no particular need that I can envision to keep the two inserts located WRT each other any better that what we have going already.
Just my thoughts on it.
__________________
ReDesign by FEATHER
by Jerry Feather
Producer for 928 of:
-Hatch Latch Receiver Liner--All Versions
-Replacement Heavy Duty Spare Tire Cover
-Flush Center Console Conversion
-Cowl Cover, Cowl Seal, & Shell Stickers--All versions
(RHD included)
-Aluminum Gas Cap Ratcheting Pawl
ReDesign by FEATHER
by Jerry Feather
Producer for 928 of:
-Hatch Latch Receiver Liner--All Versions
-Replacement Heavy Duty Spare Tire Cover
-Flush Center Console Conversion
-Cowl Cover, Cowl Seal, & Shell Stickers--All versions
(RHD included)
-Aluminum Gas Cap Ratcheting Pawl
12-30-2013, 03:53 PM
#49
Electron Wrangler
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Well the reason wss not to make a single piece before insertion into the console - I agree no need - it just complicates everything a lot.
Rather to better support those narrow side pieces at the bottom - so attached after install.
Now maybe you locate these directly to the console side sufficiently that it isn't an issue anyway? not sure if you have mentioned/shown how you attach the face plate to the console sides yet?
Anyway just ideas - I know you've been through most of this already - likely several times... but every now and then we might find a new rock to turn over!
That's how if often works for me... sometimes its not directly the idea that someone proposes - but that thought makes me think about other things differently and leads to other discoveries...
Alan
Rather to better support those narrow side pieces at the bottom - so attached after install.
Now maybe you locate these directly to the console side sufficiently that it isn't an issue anyway? not sure if you have mentioned/shown how you attach the face plate to the console sides yet?
Anyway just ideas - I know you've been through most of this already - likely several times... but every now and then we might find a new rock to turn over!
That's how if often works for me... sometimes its not directly the idea that someone proposes - but that thought makes me think about other things differently and leads to other discoveries...
Alan
12-30-2013, 03:57 PM
#50
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
That's why it is good that you keep coming up with these ideas.
As to how the inserts stay in place, it is just spring pressure inherent in the side flanges of the inserts together with the doubler strips glued along the bottoms which snap into the groves along the botton inside of the console recess.
As to how the inserts stay in place, it is just spring pressure inherent in the side flanges of the inserts together with the doubler strips glued along the bottoms which snap into the groves along the botton inside of the console recess.
12-30-2013, 03:58 PM
#51
I have a question.
Why is the surface always that sort of grained plastic Apple IIe case pattern? Can that change?
Why is the surface always that sort of grained plastic Apple IIe case pattern? Can that change?
12-30-2013, 04:52 PM
#52
12-30-2013, 05:16 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
In another thread, Jerry said that the pebble grain was due the ABS sheets he choose for the project. The idea is that the plastic will be covered by leather, so the grain will not be seen.
12-30-2013, 05:42 PM
#54
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
I got a little bit done this afternoon. I cleaned up the Air vent flapper assembly and trimmed it a little more. Then I rerouted out the two previous openings in the upper insert and tried to correctly locate and the middle hole and then opened it up. I have it located just barely good enough, but then I find that the two AC panels are not far enough down. I notice that the bottom edge of the narrow AC panel is not sharp but rather fairly rounded. Actually it is just about the same radius as the bottom corners of the ears or tails that are going to be left on the upper insert. That opening needs to be moved down about an eighth inch.
Then I think I will move the air vent opening back up a bit, about a sixteenth inch; and both of those will probably give me about 5/16 inch along the top and bottom of the Double DIN opening. Thats what I want.
Here are some pictures. In them you can see that I have to grind off the mounting tangs on both AC panels some in ordere for them to fit within the width of the upper insert since it is narrowere that where they came from. There will still be enough to mount them with.
I am also trying to show that the two AC panels nest together and when they are flat against each other there is a tiny gap between then at the face. (That picture is kind of blury.) However, when they are articulated away from each other in the back a bit the gap in front closes nicely. That is a benefit of articulating them because they need to be articulated in order for the face of them to follow the curvature of the bottom of the upper insert. Works out very nicely.
You can see in the last picture how the bottom opening is just too far up. The bottom of the lower AC panel needs to be just below the bottom corners of the insert.
You can also see how very little remains of the upper insert after the openings are made. That's why there needs to be all the doubling I am doing.
Then I think I will move the air vent opening back up a bit, about a sixteenth inch; and both of those will probably give me about 5/16 inch along the top and bottom of the Double DIN opening. Thats what I want.
Here are some pictures. In them you can see that I have to grind off the mounting tangs on both AC panels some in ordere for them to fit within the width of the upper insert since it is narrowere that where they came from. There will still be enough to mount them with.
I am also trying to show that the two AC panels nest together and when they are flat against each other there is a tiny gap between then at the face. (That picture is kind of blury.) However, when they are articulated away from each other in the back a bit the gap in front closes nicely. That is a benefit of articulating them because they need to be articulated in order for the face of them to follow the curvature of the bottom of the upper insert. Works out very nicely.
You can see in the last picture how the bottom opening is just too far up. The bottom of the lower AC panel needs to be just below the bottom corners of the insert.
You can also see how very little remains of the upper insert after the openings are made. That's why there needs to be all the doubling I am doing.
12-30-2013, 05:45 PM
#55
12-30-2013, 08:03 PM
#56
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
I have another version of the upper insert curing with the 1/8 inch thick doublers along the bottom outside edges. I am still thinking about how I need to adjust the two-hole router jig so that I can cut the top opening and bottom opening where I now want them. I just about have that figured out. I am also considering reducing the thickness of the inside doubler material so that we will end up with a little more protrusion of the double DIN unit and the AC panels.
Right now, with the inside doublers being 3/16 inch thick and counting at least one thickness of leather but more likely two, there is just too little of the units coming through in the front. I think I will use 3/32 inch material on this next version. They will also rout in the seconday routing step a little easier.
Right now, with the inside doublers being 3/16 inch thick and counting at least one thickness of leather but more likely two, there is just too little of the units coming through in the front. I think I will use 3/32 inch material on this next version. They will also rout in the seconday routing step a little easier.
12-30-2013, 09:05 PM
#57
12-30-2013, 09:08 PM
#58
12-30-2013, 10:11 PM
#59
Pro
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 700
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is an awesome thread that I am following with anticipation. Great job Jerry. Can't wait to see where it leads to! 
Once i see the final end, I will start working on doing this conversion and recovering my console in leather with the console patterns that you sent me. Lucky thing is that my engine rebuild side tracked me and allowed me some time to see where to take the future mods.
Once i see the final end, I will start working on doing this conversion and recovering my console in leather with the console patterns that you sent me. Lucky thing is that my engine rebuild side tracked me and allowed me some time to see where to take the future mods.
Last edited by Livio928; 12-31-2013 at 09:22 AM.
