docmirror

Well sports fans, here's a dilemma as I own both. I have a 90GT 928, which is about the best they come, and I have an 83 Mondial cabrio, which in Ferrari terms is about the worst they come. The valuation on both cars is within a grand-ish($16-20k), so there is that debate put aside. First point, most are all wrong about the 928 auto. It's sourced from the Merc and it's tough, and shifts fast, and is reliable as all get out. I have the stick, but the auto is a fine piece of German engineering. Since the 928 is more touring that tossing, the auto is suitable for long drives at high speed. Next, the 928 is a GT car, and the drive, feel, and comfort are near the top of the mark. Great seats, pedals, the binnacle tilts with the steering wheel, the mirrors and controls are where you expect them from a mid-80s super car. And the late 80s 928 was no doubt a super car. Fine choice for those who selected it. Now lets talk about the much maligned Mondial. If ever there was a love-hate relationship with a car the Mondial would be the poster-child. They do seem to get the blood boiling either in love or hate. It is not, and cannot be anything like the 87 928. the Mondial has a completely different driving style, and completely different feel to it. As I sometimes say 'apples vs lobster'. The engine in the Mondial is the same as the 308/328 with slightly different cams and the final drive is a bit shorter due to the weight increase over the 308 family. That makes it just slightly quicker off the line with the standard LSD diff kicking in, but not as fast at the top. This is actually a good thing, cause no one spends much time up in the 6s in final gear. No one. The brakes on the 83 were sourced out of the 328 bin, and are fantabulous. Brings the car down from zippy speeds quite nicely with no fade or darting. The 83 is sans ABS, so you actually have to know what your doing with the center pedal, besides just stomp on it. The seating is rather miserable, although the seat back does adjust, it's just not a comfy seat. The tilt and telescope is ok, but it's for that typical arms out Italian style that wears on most people unless you have chimp arms. electrical system is dreck, lights, wipers, radio, AC, et-al are barely suitable, and the cabrio top is horrendous. I mean the guy who designed it should be drug behind a garbage scow for a few days, it's That Bad. But - I've saved the best for last. Once you do get in, strapped up, seat and binnacle adjusted, the engine fires, and the gauges tip up right, and the thing warms up, you can push the clutch in, gate it down into the dogleg first, and let er rip. Have the window open, have the radio off, have long swooping corners, and some tight twists in front of you and you will absolutely forget any of the negatives about the past 300 words. The car is point-and-shoot. It just WORKS. The sound is visceral, the tach spins like a top to the big numbers, and you grab some wheel and pull hard and the car goes right where you said it should. Get a bit to aggressive and the brakes will make you look like Moss at Silverstone every time. Low polar moment of inertia with the engine in the middle, cab-forward seating just behind the front wheels, close ratio gears so that changing isn't a hassle to keep it on the pipe, the car just WORKS. Of course, after a while, you have to slow for a stop light, or you may find yourself on a mind numbing straight piece of NY/NJ/PA highway behind a semi hauling pigs, but when you get it all put together, the prancing horse on the trunk facia really means something. It's not a 928, it shouldn't be a 928, it will cost you plenty to fix the wiring and fuse box, and AC, injection, and clutch. It's all worth it. Nothing wrong with sitting in the Mondial and making it go fast for a while. Don't plan to spend a lot of time in there, and you'll be fine. The engine will go well past 100k(I'm over that now), with plenty of time left on it. The trans is pretty solid, and the belts and clutch can be resolved with the engine in the car. You would be fine voting this way as well.

sweet928

Doc, that right there is EXACTLY why I bought a Mondial. I have not logged much time in mine yet as the belts are getting done. The test drive put a big giant grin on my face and the rest really doesn't matter. Driving home with the Mondial on the trailer with the prancing horse emblem in my rear view mirror just kept the grin going for the two hour drive home. I have the pictures posted here on my phone, laptop and tablet and have been starting at them every few hours since Friday. I'm smitten. If you have never driven one - you owe it to yourself to do so.

Koenig-Specials 928

Looks like the 928 is throwing a jealous hissy fit!

rgs944

I think that discussion always needs to be about true production cars or limited specialty cars to have an honest comparison. If you were likely to see a rich doctor drive one down the street than it is a true production car. For that same reason I do see the buggati veyron as the faster car on the street today.

Vilhuer

When 928 was first introduced one could buy Aston Martin V8, Ferrari 400 and 512 BB, Lamborghini Countach and Espada, Maserati Bora and Khamsin and Porsche 911 Turbo. They all were normal production line models with more hp than 928. Its true numbers made was smaller that early 928 but they are not that far from GTS. For example 512 BB and BBi total production was over 1900, 400 and 400i over 1800 and Espada over 1200.

Already in late sixties and early seventies Ferrari 365 GTB/4 was faster than virtually any stock 928 including GTS, it did genuine 175mph. There were 1284 made and additional 122 365 GTS/4 spyders. At the moment Bugatti Veyron production is 300 coupes and little over 100 open top cars. They are hoping to make 150 open Gran Sports and Vitesses but it seems very difficult to sell last 40-50 cars. I suspect VW board will soon accept defeat and stop spending more money on loosing cause.

sweet928

So what mass production car was faster in 1978? I haven't found one yet in checking stats on the cars I can think of. The stat that always stuck with me was it (928) was the fastest car in 1978 - the year it was introduced. I agree special models like Alpina's, M's, AMG, Kohing(sp?) etc should not be included. Just bone stock examples.

Vilhuer

Aston Martin V8
Ferrari 400
Ferrari 512 BB
Lamborghini Countach
Lamborghini Espada
Maserati Bora
Maserati Khamsin
Porsche 911 Turbo

They were all made in production line same way as 928 and could be ordered from any dealer. AFAIK Aston, Espada, Bora, Khamsin and 911 were all officially imported into USA in 1978. 12 cylinder Ferraris and Countach had to go through gray market importers.

Only years 928 was faster than 911 Turbo were 1987-1992 when manual S4, GT and both gearbox type GTS were barely faster than 911 Turbo and 964 Turbo 3.3. When 964 Turbo 3.6 came it was again 3mph faster than GTS. During those years Ferrari Testarossa was 10mph faster than GTS and available at any US Ferrari dealer. Over 5000 were sold in US alone IIRR.

928 was fastest US sold car for very brief time in early eighties when 911 Turbo wasn't officially imported and Italians had trouble geting their large engine cars through emissions etc. During those years ROW markets had Aston, 512 BBi and Countach which were clearly faster than ROW 300hp 928 S.

sweet928

Quick check on Wikipedia for the Ferrari 400 shows 0-60 was over 7 seconds. Also 400i came out in the 80's - I'm specifically talking about 78-79 and only 78-79. Are you just looking at top speed?

Vilhuer

Fast = top speed. Quick would be 0-60mph or 1/4 mile time. 7 seconds is probably with 3 speed automatic and its better than any 4.5L 928 automatic ever did. 1976-79 carburator 400 is actually more powerful at 340hp than 1978-84 K-jetronic 400i at 310hp.

Vilhuer

Besides 911 Turbo was available in US in '78 MY. Over 500 were sold. 928 has very little hope against it even though it had only 265hp. It was still 45 more than heavier 928.

sweet928

Working my way through the list. First car, Ferrari 400 never offered for sale in the USA other than get market. Working on my phone so one by one.

Vilhuer

Don't waste your time. Just knowing 911 Turbo was available in US in '78 is enough to tell 928 wasn't fastest car sold in US in '78, let alone entire world.

sweet928

OK, I give. I'll amend my statement to be one of the fastest in the world. That being said, my original point was the 928 deserves to be worth more than a 2-12 grand when old Datsun Z' are selling for more! Either way - market value doesn't necessarily equal personal value. Some guys love VW bugs. Some guys love trucks. I love 928's. BTW, side note, the mods on mine make it an entirely different experience.

hacker-pschorr

Or quality of the car. DeLorean's sell for more than almost any 928, yet they are one of the worst vehicles ever constructed.

Have you checked the value of those lately?

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...n=41.1&aid=464

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...n=32.2&aid=464

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...=341.1&aid=423

sweet928

Exactly. Based on the "rules" of collector cars; The 928 should be worth a LOT more. I don't care either way. Just kind of an enigma.

Sheesh, How in the world is a VW bug something you would spend 30k for but not a 928? Now granted we do have the GT and the GTS's commanding that and much, much more. Still it doesn't quite follow collector logic that the later models would be the higher value ones. The older ones are more rare and more "original" . Meaning before wings and spoilers were added.

I like the first generation Lamborghini Countach way more than the 80's versions. I like the early Esprits more than the later ones. I like the early Ferrari's like the 308 GTB and the Boxer's way more than the later stuff. Now on the flip side I don't quite get the love for the 356's but to each their own. The MB Gullwing I get, the 550 spyder too. Those cars are works of art. Of course the Miura, the GTO Ferrari and even a Shelby Cobra too. Would love to have them all!