AnatolyL

Nobody contacts me...

depami

Or maybe someone really doesn't have time for the car anymore and just needs to get rid of it. Priorities do change. Sometimes that's where the smokin' deals are found.

AnatolyL

What I'm finding is that when you have a nice 928 advertised for sale the only response you get is from jokers and rip off artists. One guy wanted to paint my house in exchange for the car. One guy wanted to trade me a pick up truck. Then you have the rip off scams that we all know about...offshore employees etc etc.
As a German car mechanic starting my career in 1983, I've seen the 928 through most of its history. Obviously, when the car was new only very wealthy people could buy it. Then when the 4 valve engine came out and the timing belts started to break with the resulting 10k repair bill, and the car became more and more complicated (as if it wasn't complicated enough in 1978) the car developed a reputation - most of it negative. Fantastic car to drive - that was never the problem. Difficult and expensive car to keep on the road and in correct condition - that is the problem.
So when I see stories like "the values are going up" and "the car has never been more popular" - I'm skeptical. I can take my car to any show or gathering, and people walk by it like its invisible to fawn over the clapped out Camaro parked next to me. And don't think its because my car doesn't look good - a woman could do her make up in the reflection of the original paint on my car.
So now after 7 years of pouring money into this car (which I have done to all 5 of the Porsches I've owned since 1984) and trying to sell it to set myself up to retire, I'm finding it a frustrating car to sell. Everybody wants to the "smoking deal" and nobody wants to pay for a good car.

docmirror

And now for something completely different.

From a bottom-feeder, it can be rewarding, and challenging to get a thrashed car and bring it slowly back from the dead. There's no savings involved, but when you are done, you know -- because you've been in there that things are done right. I've seen people pay for a polished pig that needed nearly as much work as the POS I would buy, with the exception of paint.

I bought a 90GT for $6k, and if I hadn't spun a crank bearing, would be the best investment I've had lately. Sadly, when tracking it I DID spin the bearing, but before that it ran fine, and required what every 928 required. Last year I bought a 92 968 for $1800, I've got about $6400 in it now, and I know all the systems well. Many years ago I bought a Ferrari Mondial for equivalent of $15k. It's been a constant source of little fixes and hasn't gone up in value, but at least it hasn't gone down much.

The key is purchase price. When you go bottom feeding you can't overpay. CL is a good source for cars like this and you have to go OUT THERE to prove you are a buyer and not just a voice on the phone or a text msg. Make an appointment sight-unseen, take cash, deal and if it's not right walk away. Buying a bottom car is like dating pretty girls. You may get 30 rejections(if you look like me), but only one yes can be a big deal.

Sellers of fixer cars know, and you know, and they know that you know that the car isn't going to sell for what they are asking. That's why they often put 'NO LOWBALLER' in the ad. Well,, Eff that, I drove out there, I'm the one standing here with cash, and the buyer, not seller is what sets the price. Sellers make can ask anything they want, but cash talks. I went and looked at a thrashed black 86.5 in a yard up on blocks. The guy was asking $1400 at first, and he rejected $800 offer, but called me back a few weeks later. The $800 was looking better now, and I could have sold the trans, brakes, and some body tin for more than that. By then, I didn't need the hassle so some other breaker bought it and took it apart.
Some keys to bottom feeding:
1) It has to have either a good paint job, or good interior, or good driveline. If it needs all three - pass.
2) Expect that all non-essential system won't work(AC/heat, lights, windows, seat adj, radio, etc).
3) If you are going to pay for labor, don't even look for fixer cars. These are cars that are only viable if you and friends or kids can work on slowly, in your shop, with your tools.
4) Unless you are highly detail oriented, it's going to be a work in prog for a while. Once it runs, drives, stops, and the lights work things can be fixed along the way. Most people start driving them at this point, and the rest of the systems get worked on as needed. No one has the AC recharged and the blower fixed in Feb, but in May it starts to be important.
5) Don't take the 'expert' opinions seriously, including from this less than 'expert'. I had one tell me my oiling problem was due to the head gasket being on reversed. It's physically impossible on an 32V engine to do that, and I'm glad I verified that before pulling the head.
6) Most important, don't overpay. Cut the asking price in half, and walk but leave your phone number. I've been called back a few times cause no one else is even coming out to look. Be polite, but be realistic. The alternatives for them is looking at it sitting in the yard for another year, or taking CASH.

coreseller

The girl comment made me chuckle, on your other points there is much truth to all of them.

I have been down and plan on going down both paths in the future (just bought a SCCA Prepped AutoX Miata 6 weeks ago for $3500, major score since it had over $3k in NIB components in addition to the prepped car, half of which I've already sold). Which direction I go depends on the car and my then current situation / foreseen time available to monkey with the vehicle. If I'm covered up at work and don't see a let up in sight, I'll pony up more dollars.

What blows me away on the 928 search (concentrating on 87 and newer S4's) is most of the cars I inquired about were in the 15 to $20k range, these are not "been out there in the field" $1500 has beens. I'm a 50 year old professional businessman, more articulate than most and am a cash buyer, just happened to get stiffed by another this past weekend who I talked to twice and said he'd email pics. I know you suggest saddling up with cash in hand and driving there, but I'm not going to chance driving hours to look at something where the guy flakes out and wastes my time and gas. If emailing pics is too much for them to bother with I generally have a credibility issue and am not going to invest much effort either.

Maybe I've just had a bad run of luck, who knows. Or.....God is telling me I own too many cars as it is.....

docmirror

Cry me a river. I just drove 2600 miles with a trailer to look at an airplane that was, to put it mildly - misrepresented. If I had a match and some gas I woulda burned it.

OTOH, I flew to Indy a few years back and got a killer deal on another plane, saved $8k. It's a crap shoot.

coreseller

In this case I am in search of a Very Nice, no stories car with verifiable service history and not in need of immediate (I know that there will be a few things, always are) major attention. IMO at this time ~$20k dollars for a '87 to '90 S4 is strong money, the seller ought to be willing to exert some energy to secure a sale.

I can spend time being productive / hustling at work and MORE than make up the difference versus p*ssing away my time trying to screw a guy down a few grand for a car that is likely is as shady / unreliable as the character trying to sell it.
It may be worth it to you, not to me. Bottom feeders tend to attract each other, once again, not an insult, just my experience. If I were looking for an early 80's car for $5k or less I'd agree you gotta roll with the punches, that's not the case with my search though.

There's your river lol. Rant over, no more complaining or commenting on my search. If I find the right car / seller it will happen.

docmirror

You're right, bottom feeders are like AA members, we meet every thur night at the airport Marriott - in the bar. lol

I've met some pretty shady folks while shopping the bottom. No champagne and no caviar.

$18-20k should get you a pretty nice example of an S4, and even a decent 5SP, and I agree a seller at that price point should be pretty proactive.

My commentary above was aimed mostly at the OP who is trying to buy from the great unwashed on CL and wondering why he's stymied at every turn. Of course, it's entirely possible to pay $18k for an S4 which will turn into a service nachtmar. I've seen it right here in this forum on more than one occasion. That's why there's a free market. Something for everyone.

<edit: I'd sell my red 90GT for that kind of price, but it's not running right, and you are looking at a no-question kind of car. I gotta get it done soon.>

coreseller

Again Doc, nothing awry meant by the bottom feeder comment. As previously noted I occasionally go that route myself and fully know what to expect, just decided on the potential 928 search to spend at the upper level in hopes of a good example. I truly wish your GT was white, black, blue or silver........

depami

.....>>>>> CLICK HERE <<<<<.....

Good luck with your search.

AnatolyL

I think that pretty well sums up the 928 market...

Adamant1971

Good 928's are like a needle in a haystack. And good buyers are like a needle in a haystack, but hundreds of miles away. Connecting the two is the challenge.

docmirror

Bah! Red is the only proper color for a car, boat, plane, and girlfriend.

outbackgeorgia

YES!

Landseer

Somebody oughta map the individual purchase decisions and outcomes logged here on RL.

More interesting than the cars themselves, to me, at this point in my journey.

We are a bunch of characters, self included.