Wyo928

1982 automatic.

Recent purchase, first Porsche. I'm slowly (very) working my way over this. Have been over most, not all, ground points, new ground strap, fuses, numerous other minor parts. Old Bosch alternator. Was working on tranny (cables, fluid) but ran into a new or old problem after replacing some vacuum lines. Won't start.

I drove it home at night when I bought it, lights were dim. Tightened alternator belt. Charged battery several times. I've jumped it and started it with 6 A charger attached but have read since then that that's bad. Dunno why.

Battery reads at 13 - 14 V when I put it back in after charging. A few days ago, after charging battery and running for a bit, the red ! came on, lights got bright. I shut it down. I jumped it once since then, ran it briefly, parked it. Now, it won't start. Sometimes I get clicking from the starter, sometimes I get one click and a "your block is seized" feeling.

Maybe it means my battery is junk but it still reads 12 V after attempting to start. I know that's a bit low. Maybe that's the problem but i'm posting this question in case someone reads this and has something to say like, wait, you're wasting your time, check the....

I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking I need to get rid of the alternator and put in the Camaro one, buy a fresh battery, and start over. Trouble is, that's $200-$300 or so that I don't want to spend if I have a serious and expensive problem. I can't imagine that the engine would be seized, it hasn't been put to the test at all since I bought it.

Also, really, I'll be looking to trade this 928 within a year or two because I want a 5 speed. I'll put some money into it to get it close to factory specs, clean, and somewhat more trusty but not the level of restore I'd put into a 5 speed.

I tend to want to replace parts rather than fully diagnose and I know that so I'm trying really hard to not spend unnecessarily. Any help, advice, or just a dope-slap is appreciated. Thanks!

snoz

What is the voltage when you try to start it?

Also, not fully diagnosing a problem and buying parts is a sure fire way to spend unnecessarily.

WICruiser

Take the battery to the auto parts store and have it load tested (must be fully charged first). If that tests OK, check your positive battery cable connections (assuming the ground is good as you already replaced it).

Wyo928

Thanks! I need to be reminded of the simple things first. So tempting to just replace everything with shiny new stuff. Thanks for helping to control my frivolous side.

The voltage when I try to start it is hard to read. I don't trust my dash at all. I only checked once but, when I took the battery off the charger, it was in the 13-14 V range. After trying to start it, I read 12 V. My meter may be suspect. It's as old as the car, Radio Shack multi meter, the nicer one from that era. Maybe I should modernize?

I'll try to load test idea.

I haven't checked positive side yet. Good idea.

snoz

The load test is a good idea. What I suggested was basically quick cursory load test. The auto parts store will be able to give you precise data. Let us know what you find out.

I too still fall for the shiny new stuff option. I know how tempting it can be.

dr bob

Throwing random and expensive parts at a problem sounds like fun, but can also trash a budget in a hurry. I'll also suggest that, if you plan to buy a 5-speed car in the next year, adjust your plans now. Sell the one you have now, and find the car you want. Do your restoration on the right car for you. Dollars you spend on the existing car just to get it running are OK, because the percentage value of a non-running car is a small fraction of the same car running well. After that, every dollar you put in the car might bring back twenty cents at resale time if you are lucky. Same goes for the 5-speed car you'll buy, but you'll have the option to recover your resto costs by driving the car after the work is current.


A dozen or more years ago, a local 928 uber-enthusiast was casually searching for that perfect late-model GTS 5-speed. None seemed to fit his needs. During the search period, an earlier car came on the market for a good price. It had OK bones but lots of stuff had stopped working for the PO. So the 'interim' car was purchased for a few $K, and the fun started. Interior was out, in and out again regularly it seemed as ground wiring was traced. Over time, the stuff that hadn't worked before was brought to life again. Lots of hours and lots of dollars went into that car over the next half-dozen years. And that was for a car that wasn't what he really wanted. It died a sudden and unexpected death by cam nose fracture, causing the owner to make a decision moving away from the 928. He still loves them, but doesn't own one anymore.

jheis

The click, click, click when you turn the key indicates a discharged battery - not enough juice for the starter to crank it over.

On the other hand, if you have a thrust bearing failure, the starter may not be able to turn over the engine (although that's not the normal failure mode). Have you checked your crank end play - released the flexplate? With a little luck, it's just a bad battery.

Wisconsin Joe

As has been suggested, load test the battery. That can be done out of the car - most parts stores do it for free (to sell you a new one) Or in the car - Have someone put the meter on the battery as you are cranking it. Those old Tandy meters are built like tanks, they last a long time.

You say in the OP that you have charged the battery several times. Why? Is it dead after a few days (won't hold a charge)? That strongly suggest that the battery is junk.

And FWIW, jump starting these cars is a bad idea because you can fry the computers if you do it wrong. It's best to disconnect the battery to charge it too.

FiveElements

The lights going bright is interesting. Maybe your alternator is not working all the time or has loose connection. Sounds like it started to work and the lights brightened up for a reason. What error light went on with the RED-! warning? You could have also flooded with short on off running periods. So if your battery is full and turns the car over, the no start problem may be too much fuel in the cylinders. You can also try starting the car with the gas peddle all the way down on the floor. If you only get click, click, you could also have a bad starter solenoid. I charge my car with the battery in all the time, but the ignition is off when I connect the charger on and I remove the charger before the ignition is turned on.

Wyo928

Load test shows battery is good. That's all I can check till tomorrow or Sunday. Charged the battery multiple times, I should have said, prior to tightening alt belt, cleaning grounds, and replacing ground strap. Thanks for the ideas, sorry to be moving slowly.

Wyo928

I am clueless as to how to check this. Time to search the forum!

Since the battery tests fine, I think the starter solenoid might be one problem as suggested. Maybe a loose alternator wire explains the red ! I didn't catch any specific error light when the red ! came on.

Still lots to learn!

Wisconsin Joe

Thrust Bearing Failure and how to check for it are covered in the "New Visitor" sticky. So are a lot of the electrical issues. TBF usually shows up when the engine is hot, not cold; I kind of doubt that it is the cause of this particular problem. But checking for it is something that should be done anyway.

If the battery is good, but the starter is just clicking, then power is not getting to it (duh). You need a clear and viable current path for the starter to turn. It draws a lot of power. It is possible to see good continuity with a meter, but the connections aren't good enough to carry the current needed to crank it over. Check the entire positive path from the battery to the starter, check all your grounds, maybe replace the negative ground strap. There have been instances where the ground strap corroded under the insulation. It looked fine, but wouldn't carry enough current to do the job. Someone (MainePorsche IIRC) has a pic of it.

The ground points are in the sticky, there are links to the cleaning procedure in there too (Post #33 IIRC).

Wyo928

Yeah, I read the sticky and went back to it tonight to read TBF because I'd forgotten that part. Thank you! I cleaned most of my grounds couple weeks ago because of the new visitor sticky. Sure is handy!

Thanks. Will be following the + side of things further. Started tonight. I've replaced the ground strap with new and will need to hit the rest of the grounds- got about half using stickies as resource. That ground strap pic you mention is the ONLY reason I replaced mine and glad I did. Again, very handy resource.

So, put the battery in tonight, turned the key, only one big click. No start. Possible faint electrical smell but there's so many smells in my shop I'm not sure. Pulled the battery, started to follow the + side from the starter. That's as far as I got. Thought the open copper wire from the solenoid to the starter looked flat black. Pulled the starter, cleaned it up, wire looks okay, will test tomorrow.

An interesting thing about the evening's adventure was finding a mummified barn mouse beside the starter pinion gear up below the flywheel. I guess my car was a barn find, after all. Maybe the mummy was responsible for bad juju and the car's problems are all over now.

Also, while turning the allen bolts on the starter about a quarter turn at a time I was thinking about how much time, effort and money I'm putting into the Porsche (sounds like a feminine name) and how I've put a lot less into some dates a long time ago. SO, when the Porsche begins to "put out" ( haven't driven her much yet), is she worth it?

Again, thanks for the help! Keeps me moving along.