Red Flash

Hi All

So, I have had a rather extreme bout of traveling lately for professional reasons. Although I really hate traveling, I have this situation every now and then...

I happened to be in Zürich recently (which I know in the mean time quite well). I was invited to a party and what did I spy when walking out of the building to get a breath of fresh air? A very serviceable looking 928s4! With Texas plates! (See below.) In my many trips in Europe I almost never see 928s.

I then went to pff.de and looked for current numbers in Germany at least:
928, 241 PS : 240
928 S with Cat, 288 PS : 43
928 S, 300 PS : 162
928 S 2, 310 PS : 173
928 S 4, 320 PS : 473
928 S 4, 320 PS : 463
928 GT, 330 PS : 229
928 GTS, 350 PS : 602

Total for Germany: 2.385 (as of 29.08.2013)

http://www.pff.de/porsche/board104-p...#post153682190

Anyway, I ran into the owner, who happened to be Italian. (I love trying to speak my bad version of Italian...) He told about all the woes of owning 928s in Italy. Nobody who knows how to work on them etc. At the most recent gathering, very few cars only 5 or so in good shape. Took him forever to find somebody who understood what TBF is, etc.

At the end of this long conversation, I really come to the conclusion that the highest concentration of 928 knowledge is centered in the US. I think there are so few 928s left in Europe (the Continent) that there is just no base to support the trained specialists like we have in the US. I can think of a few at least: Sean, Doc Brown, Worf, Capt Earl, etc. Not exclusive of course, but we are really lucky to have such people.

Do any people like this exist in Europe, does anybody know? Up to now almost any 928 in Europe I had seen had been a real wreck.

Cheers from across the pond...


John

R.Pires

Hi,

You are soooo right!!!
I wish we in Europe had only one of the 928 specialists you have in the US! I don’t even talk about dedicated parts supplier, which will not be viable. For some reason 95% at least of the parts I buy for my car are from Roger, paying shipping and customs fees and still cheaper then buy them here at the Lisbon Porsche Centre!
I think most of us in Europe that have a 928, at least this is my case, try to do all the work we can on the car, and the rest that it’s impossible or we don’t have the necessary conditions at home, like a lift, conditions to pull an engine, etc. we must go to a mechanic we have confidence BUT (again, this is what I do) stay with him when he works on the car to teach him what we learn in Rennlist!!!
Last time my car had major work done, complete new clutch, fuel lines, gearbox reconstruction, new expansion tank, various sensors, etc etc, I was there most of the time and bring with me dozens of pages of the PET diagrams and also a lot of write-up’s and DIY’s we have available on Rennlist.
This was about 3 months ago and my clutch still not 100%, so I imagine I still didn’t have the car if I didn’t help him!

Going back to original theme, the 928 is getting very rare in Europe, even in the official Porsche Centres a lot of parts are NLA (and they don’t seem to care…), the very few cars I see for sale mostly in Germany I can’t say that are in pristine condition, far from that, so when compared to the quantity and quality of the cars, parts and true specialists in the US, you are in fact very lucky!

Regards

Bart-Jan

I was recently scouting for good but second hand clutch parts (since new are extremely expensive or NLA). I went to one of the biggest Porsche specialists in the south of The Netherlands (Van Zweeden) who is quite experienced in 928's. He even buys containers of new old stock parts from all over the world, keeps them and sends them again to all over the world. He told me several years ago, he would be able to buy a reasonable GTS for 8000 Euros! Today, they go for at least double of that, he told me... These cars are getting quite rare especially when they are in good working order.

When I bought my car, the previous owner handed over bills adding up to over 5000 euros for the last 4 years of his ownership, despite selling the car to me for only 4000 Euros. He had all the work done by specialists. I do all the work on my car myself, saving on labour but also parts, I usually order in the US. Even cheaper than ordering in Germany!!! There's so much that can go wrong and needs overhaul for these cars that the labour costs alone would cost a fortune! I understand that many 928's get ripped apart for parts, because in that way they render a huge amount of cash and only a few are being maintained well.

Vilhuer

There were maybe 15K 928's made for German market. Only 2.4K left in Germany don't mean all 12.6K are lost. For past 10 years on average one 928 per month have been exported to Finland alone. Many more have gone to Sweden etc. Some of them are in perfect condition and are driven daily. Only way to keep them like that is to DIY by owners. There simply isn't more than handful of owners who are rich enough to pay for all needed work by the hour.

During past few weeks I chased intermediate engine shutdown problem in friends '92 GTS. It was first imported to Sweden around 10 years ago and then year ago to Finland. Ended up using 25h to get rid of the issue which was caused by 993 alarm remote control unit installed to work with stock 928 alarm. It seems this was done in late 1994 in Germany by dealer. Quality of work was terrible but setup worked until now. It wasn't easy to find what caused it when problem came randomly and went away in minute or two. Pro might have fixed problem much faster but 10h at local dealer costs $1.5K. Nowdays its possible dealer electrician might have never seen 928 before so owner ends up paying for education.

R.Pires

Besides the lack of parts and the everytime greater rarity of the 928, i'm not sure that EVEN IF we wanted the mantenance made by a dealer they will be competent to do it, probably a lot of the Porsche mechnics that work at the dealers never had the oportunity to look closely, mechanically, to a 928!
Just for you to have an idea of asking prices in my coumtry I leave you a link for the only one I can find for sale in Portugal at this moment.

http://www.standvirtual.com/carros/a.../928/P7394784/

Regards

Nicole

There are plenty of very, very knowledgeable 928 owners and experts in Germany. I have personally met many of them; either through personal connection or the German 928 club.

They just don't spend much time on rennlist.

Mazzini

I believe to know that 928 S4...John Your italian is better than my english,
however I agree with You about the Know how on the 928S4;

http://www.fotothing.com/Earp63/phot...62f8a0ad156c7/

the true is In Italy the only way is learn fron hown mistake,
the car in unkmown, rebuild the engine was a nightmare for 4 years,
only in Porsche in Forlì I find a "specialist"....

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/fa3/...249740_49e.jpg

But the 928....still remain a great car,,,,,Drive it on the "Gottardo Pass"........
and there aren't candies for everyone...

Red Flash

Nice to hear you again Lucio!

There might be some "very, very knowledgeable 928 owners and experts in Germany." But, in a country of 80 million plus, 2'385 cars is not much. The knowledge methinks is little and far between. Anyway my thread was not about Germany specifically, it was about Europe. I just had specific numbers for Germany. My escapades over the last couple years indicate that Europe is even a lot worse off than Germany for 928 knowledge and skill.

John

Nicole

Well, let's think about where by far the most 928s were sold: US, Germany, UK. IIRC, France was next, but far behind the others.

NoVector

As a Texan living in Germany, two things I’ve noticed: 1) different when it comes to shade-tree mechanics. Even in the smallest towns in the States you’ll find a NAPA (next to a Dairy Queen) and in the larger suburbs, there’s a Pep Boys, Advanced Auto, NAPA, AutoZone on every other corner. Here you just don’t find that. Also, auto “repair” is not allowed in residential areas in the villages around here. So, I never see teenagers under a hood with dad working on cars. 2) cars allowed to drive in most states in ‘merica would never ever pass an annual inspection here. So, lack of 928s w/ knowledgeable people isn’t unique to 928s – you could say that about any older car here.

928cs

In France, a car must pass a technical inspection every two years, or less than three months before beeing sold.
Last year, 526 928s were inspected.

This means that around 1000 928s are still used in France today.

I'm a member of the Porsche Club 928 of France and we are over 200. I think the cars of our members are in better than average condition, thanks to the knowledge and patience of many very skilled members.

John Speake

There's also around 1,000 928s registered on the roads here in the UK, with another 1,000 still "alive" but off the road.

Our cars have to meet an annual MOT inspection which is quite throrough.

Vilhuer

Everyone of these three moved under their own power this weekend, even at same time. None of them has been in any official workshop for past few years other than tire shop for alignment and dyno shop for checking engine health. That might be reason they are still running around.

Mazzini

he a little video about the last meeting in Italy

Dave Sz.

Nice video clip Mazzini