Simon928

Well, it looks like my head gasket has given up the ghost. About a month ago I remember that I checked my coolant level and it was low, so I topped it up and everything seemed fine. On the weekend I was driving with the missus and the temp warning light came on (the needle wasn't all the way to the top, but about 4/5ths). That had never happened before, so I promptly pulled over and let the car sit for a few minutes. After a bit of a wait I turned it on again, and the temp needle wasn't as high as it was before but it was still high, so I pulled over again and checked the coolant level. Sure enough, I couldn't see anything in the reservoir. We were about a mile away from a Walmart, so I waited a few more minutes and tried the engine. The temp needle was about half way up, so I inched my way to Walmart, got some Zerex, topped it up (it took almost a full bottle!) and then the temp stayed below the 1/4 mark for the 20 min drive home.

Now, I had also had some white smoke in my exhaust on startup for the last couple of months, so that combined with the loss of coolant and no puddles on the floor or visible leaks of any kind made me suspect the worst...head gasket failure. I went out yesterday and bought a compression tester and gave everything a once over. All of the cylinders tested between 150 and 160 except for cylinder 5 (drivers side, closest to front of car) which read 180. As soon as the plug was taken out I knew that we had found the problem, as the plug was shiny and a little wet. I could even see the coolant dripping in. Crap.

Sooo....the car is parked in my garage and I'm not going to drive it anymore until I tear this down and get it fixed. The question to all of you gurus is, do you think I should do this with the engine in the car or with it pulled? All things being equal I would keep it in the car if possible, but I already bought a new oil pan gasket and motor mounts and was planning on doing that job this winter, so if I am doing work on both the top and bottom of the engine I am thinking I might as well pull it. BUT my first kid will be arriving in less than two months, and I have the feeling that I will be getting very little mechanical work done once that happens, so I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. The MM/OPG isn't deathly critical, but it does need to get done at some point. I've never done either of these jobs before, so it will be a learning experience to say the least. I do have a mechanic friend who is eager to help with pulling the engine if that counts for anything. BTW, the TB/WP and all related seals were replaced in the spring (about 1500 miles ago), so that won't be a WYAIT thing that I need to do.

I've also heard of people putting different types of HG stop leak (like this) in their cars with varying degrees of success, but I've also heard some stories of that stuff gumming up the car's systems as well, so I'm reluctant to try it unless I have heard from others that it's 928 safe (if such a thing is even possible). I've read on the forum of people using the Barr's product with some success, but I haven't seen that anywhere in Toronto where I am.

So what do you all think? Pull the engine, leave it in and just tear down the top end while leaving the MM/OPG for a later date when I know I have the time do it, or put in some stop leak and hope for the best?

Sorry for the long post, but since it looks like a very big job which I've never done before I figured it would be good to solicit some opinions on this. Thanks in advance!

Ducman82

it really depends how much cash you wanna spend. Pulling the motor and doing everything at once is always the best bet. but that is the spendy route for sure. stop leak can clog the radiator and exacerbate the issues, plus a new rad is expensive.

jeff spahn

Pulling the motor isn't that spendy if you do it yourself. Really all you need to do is borrow or rent an engine hoist, borrow an engine stand and pull the engine. A couple long weekends and you can be back in business.
I had this happen to my 90 S4. I pulled the engine, replaced the head gaskets, a bad piston, the rod bearing on that piston and rings. Got the heads machined and put it back together. That was tens of thousands of miles ago and it runs great. Even putting a supercharger on in two weeks.

You don't have to be a natural mechanic to do this. Get the shop manuals, watch the 928 engine building videos and go to town. Just do it.

I don't think I had $1500 in the whole deal by the time I was done, not counting the non-essential super cool tools I bought just because I could.

Pulling the engine isn't that bad. Just be sure to have a friend there and take your time. Getting the harness in and out was the worst part because I was alone when I did mine.

Pulled and put back the engine in 8 hours including lunch by myself one day because of an oil leak on a head galley plug.

Of course all of this is moot if you don't have somewhere to do it.

Simon928

Just to clarify for my ignorance's sake (no sarcasm intended at all), why do you say it will be more costly if I pull the engine? Because I will end up doing a bunch more work than I would have if I kept the engine in? Or are you talking about costs that are inherent to pulling the engine in and of itself?

Simon928

Oops, meant that last comment as a reply to Ducman's post, but it looks like Jeffrey more or less answered my question. I think I can get an engine lift and stand from my father in law, and I do have a friend to help me take the engine out, so I am leaning on going that route. Pulling the engine and all that it entails sounds like it might present its challenges, but it would just make doing everything else so much easier.

123quattro

Pull the engine...now. Once you have a baby you will be doing other things with your time.

BRB-83-911SC

I had head gasket failure on #5 on my 84 as well. Here is my epic thread for reference.

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=34007

I did all of the WYAIT's at the time. Much easier with the engine on a stand IMHO.

Ducman82

i say more spendy to pull, due to my affliction with "while you are at it" disease. i always tend to start replacing things that i can, when i can.

jeff spahn

Ducman does speak the truth. But remember the WYAIT are much easier with an engine on a stand.

Follow the specs exactly when torquing the heads.
replace all suspect rubber parts
Put on a constantine super clamp, you'll be glad you did. Get the heads done while they are off. Valve job, etc.
stud kit on oil pan
don't forget you'll need new sealing rings for the exhaust. They are a bit spendy IIRC if the 16v and 32v sealing rings are the same. like $8 each or something for a little stainless ring.
beg, steal or borrow an ultrasonic cleaner tank. drop the bolts, etc in there with a drop or two of dawn dish soap and hot water. does 90% of work for you.

Simon928

haha, I actually read the whole thread yesterday on my lunch break. You will be my inspiration when I'm doing this job!

And I agree with everyone else...pulling and doing what's needed with the engine out makes the most sense. I just wanted to get some second opinions to see if I should be talked off the ledge or not.

Methinks I'm going to turn this into another epic HPG thread, because God knows I'm going to have a lot of questions along the way.

69gaugeman

Well yes and no. I think that with a new baby you will have shorter periods of time to do things. Once the engine is out you can work on it for 5 minutes at a time if you want to. It takes longer but is easier to do shorter stints when the engine is out.

Don't stand on the ledge, JUMP! lol. You have a few of us in the GTA-ish that can give advice on this as well.

Simon928

When I met you at the GTA drive a couple of months ago you seemed to be the engine guru, so your advice would be especially welcomed! I was the guy who was checking his belt tension on the street in case you didn't remember.

69gaugeman

You were the one who never touched a wrench before you started working on your shark, right? I do remember.

Go for pulling the engine. It is a lot of simple little things to do, but not overly challenging in the big picture. And you will be able to work on it much easier. If you get really stuck, I should be able to find a few moments to help.

Simon928

Yup, that was me all right, and that lack of experience makes me feel like I'm nuts for even considering this. Oh well, I'll just go step by step, take my time and try to make a go of it. I've learned a lot these last two years, and I think I'll have learned a lot more (for better or for worse) by the time I'm done with this project.

Thanks again for your offer of assistance! I hope I don't have to pester anyone too much. I'm going to try to come up with a list of things to do or replace while I'm in there, just so I can get a ballpark as to how much I'm going to be spending. With the kid coming soon I can't go too crazy with the car fund, but I will still try to get all of the important stuff done.

Mongo

Not to scare anyone with a 16v car on here, but I keep seeing head gasket issues arising with 944 8v and 928 16v cars. Was there some issue with these gaskets installed at the time, or is it just age related issues? I know the lack of coolant changes can be a factor in the life of a head gasket.