Trying to Find Oil Cooler Leak
06-14-2013, 02:42 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Trying to Find Oil Cooler Leak - Leak Found
I have a leak in my oil cooler ('93 GTS), that I'm trying to locate. At first I thought it was an o-ring where the lines come in to the cooler from the engine. But I changed them twice to no effect.
I've tried driving the car and then checking the oil cooler, but the flow is too small to see where it's coming from. Do they always leak where the tube (I assume it's a return path) enters the main body at each end? Or are there other places it can leak? If I idle the engine with the car on jack stands will it get hot enough to open the oil cooler thremostat?
Assuming I can find the leak, what are the options for fixing it? I see Roger (928Rus) used to have someone to fix them, but no more. Anyone know someone else who repairs them, preferably on the West coast? I see some people have used JB Weld where the return tube enters the main body. Ayone know if those repairs have lasted?
TIA
I've tried driving the car and then checking the oil cooler, but the flow is too small to see where it's coming from. Do they always leak where the tube (I assume it's a return path) enters the main body at each end? Or are there other places it can leak? If I idle the engine with the car on jack stands will it get hot enough to open the oil cooler thremostat?
Assuming I can find the leak, what are the options for fixing it? I see Roger (928Rus) used to have someone to fix them, but no more. Anyone know someone else who repairs them, preferably on the West coast? I see some people have used JB Weld where the return tube enters the main body. Ayone know if those repairs have lasted?
TIA
Last edited by PortlandTom; 06-19-2013 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Staus Update
06-14-2013, 03:21 AM
#2
Team Owner
a radiator shop may be able to fix this though they would have to be able to do aluminum welding
06-14-2013, 03:27 AM
#3
Former Sponsor
I have a leak in my oil cooler ('93 GTS), that I'm trying to locate. At first I thought it was an o-ring where the lines come in to the cooler from the engine. But I changed them twice to no effect.
I've tried driving the car and then checking the oil cooler, but the flow is too small to see where it's coming from. Do they always leak where the tube (I assume it's a return path) enters the main body at each end? Or are there other places it can leak? If I idle the engine with the car on jack stands will it get hot enough to open the oil cooler thremostat?
Assuming I can find the leak, what are the options for fixing it? I see Roger (928Rus) used to have someone to fix them, but no more. Anyone know someone else who repairs them, preferably on the West coast? I see some people have used JB Weld where the return tube enters the main body. Ayone know if those repairs have lasted?
TIA
I've tried driving the car and then checking the oil cooler, but the flow is too small to see where it's coming from. Do they always leak where the tube (I assume it's a return path) enters the main body at each end? Or are there other places it can leak? If I idle the engine with the car on jack stands will it get hot enough to open the oil cooler thremostat?
Assuming I can find the leak, what are the options for fixing it? I see Roger (928Rus) used to have someone to fix them, but no more. Anyone know someone else who repairs them, preferably on the West coast? I see some people have used JB Weld where the return tube enters the main body. Ayone know if those repairs have lasted?
TIA
Last time I needed one, new coolers were still available and fairly reasonably priced. Roger was sending them out for repair, however the cost of repair was close to the cost of a new cooler, I believe.
06-14-2013, 04:21 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
A new cooler is a little under $500. I agree that's a reasonable price, particularly when you consider the price of things like the (OEM) GTS rear wheel well liners or GTS air intake tubes.
But it's such a TINY leak. I didn't even notice it until I got the rest of the leaks fixed and the engine clean. Since I noticed it a couple years ago, I've just cleaned the spoiler and undertray about once a year.
If a repair does turn out to be as much as a new cooler, I'll certainly go for a replacement. But I was hoping to fix the problem for a much less. Particularly since there are a lot of other things I would spend $500 on before this (e.g., a down payment on one of your oil breather systems).
But it's such a TINY leak. I didn't even notice it until I got the rest of the leaks fixed and the engine clean. Since I noticed it a couple years ago, I've just cleaned the spoiler and undertray about once a year.
If a repair does turn out to be as much as a new cooler, I'll certainly go for a replacement. But I was hoping to fix the problem for a much less. Particularly since there are a lot of other things I would spend $500 on before this (e.g., a down payment on one of your oil breather systems).
Very common for these to leak where the tubes join the ends. I've made a pressure tester to be able to individually test the coolers...but it sounds like you know that it leaks.
Last time I needed one, new coolers were still available and fairly reasonably priced. Roger was sending them out for repair, however the cost of repair was close to the cost of a new cooler, I believe.
Last time I needed one, new coolers were still available and fairly reasonably priced. Roger was sending them out for repair, however the cost of repair was close to the cost of a new cooler, I believe.
06-14-2013, 04:29 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Isn't there a thermostat that keeps oil from flowing into the cooler until the engine gets hot? That's why I asked if the thermostat will open with the engine idling.
So far I've just driven the car to get it warm, and then looked underneath. I can see oil on the spoiler, below where the oil lines from the engine attach to the cooler, but can't see anything but a film of oil on the cooler itself.
So far I've just driven the car to get it warm, and then looked underneath. I can see oil on the spoiler, below where the oil lines from the engine attach to the cooler, but can't see anything but a film of oil on the cooler itself.
06-14-2013, 10:59 AM
#7
Team Owner
OK get some brake cleaner and spray the cooler down then run the car and look to see where the film comes from you may have better luck dropping the cooler to find it
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06-14-2013, 02:55 PM
#8
Former Sponsor
I've never tried epoxy, but it certainly might work.
If you'd like to borrow my pressure tester, I can have Mary send it up to you.
If you are going to try this, I'd remove the cooler and pressure test it in a bucket of water. Note which tube leaks and where....usually at the very end of the tube. You could then clean this entire area very thoroughly and then "flow" a layer of slow drying epoxy, over the entire area. If necessary, you could even build a small dam out of plastic to get a thicker layer of epoxy.
It's only a matter of time, until Porsche runs out of these coolers. I've got a few "leakers" here, right now. I'm having some aluminum fittings (trying to bring the price of the oil breather kit down....hand making "billet" fittings, one at a time is very time consuming/costly) done by a company that specializes in the process of "soldering" fittings together. I'll talk to them and see if they can do coolers....it's the same process.
If you'd like to borrow my pressure tester, I can have Mary send it up to you.
If you are going to try this, I'd remove the cooler and pressure test it in a bucket of water. Note which tube leaks and where....usually at the very end of the tube. You could then clean this entire area very thoroughly and then "flow" a layer of slow drying epoxy, over the entire area. If necessary, you could even build a small dam out of plastic to get a thicker layer of epoxy.
It's only a matter of time, until Porsche runs out of these coolers. I've got a few "leakers" here, right now. I'm having some aluminum fittings (trying to bring the price of the oil breather kit down....hand making "billet" fittings, one at a time is very time consuming/costly) done by a company that specializes in the process of "soldering" fittings together. I'll talk to them and see if they can do coolers....it's the same process.
06-14-2013, 03:14 PM
#9
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If you ever bottom out the front of a GTS there is a good chance you will crack the oil cooler due to its location.
Happened to me.
Was lucky to find a good used one at 20th Street Autoparts in Arizona.
I sent my busted one to Roger as he was working on refurbishing them.
Perhaps give him a call.
Happened to me.
Was lucky to find a good used one at 20th Street Autoparts in Arizona.
I sent my busted one to Roger as he was working on refurbishing them.
Perhaps give him a call.
06-14-2013, 04:40 PM
#10
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Rennlist Member
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Tom
My GTS cooler was leaking when I first got it. Jim mayzurk sourced a place that roger was going to evaluate based on the experience that jim and i had with ours getting rebuilt.
Both of ours started leaking after about 6 mos. Jim ended up going w a new one from roger (as well as the doc brown kit- another story all together) and I'm about to get a new one from roger as well.
Mine has a very small leak, but it makes a big mess all over the font of my engine, belly pan, etc....
I say bite the bullit and go w the new one.
My GTS cooler was leaking when I first got it. Jim mayzurk sourced a place that roger was going to evaluate based on the experience that jim and i had with ours getting rebuilt.
Both of ours started leaking after about 6 mos. Jim ended up going w a new one from roger (as well as the doc brown kit- another story all together) and I'm about to get a new one from roger as well.
Mine has a very small leak, but it makes a big mess all over the font of my engine, belly pan, etc....
I say bite the bullit and go w the new one.
06-17-2013, 03:38 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I could very well wind up there. But this appears to be a common problem, so i can't help wondering if it's a design flaw. If so, how long would it be before a new one fails? And if this is the case, maybe a good fix i the better solution.
Tom
My GTS cooler was leaking when I first got it. Jim mayzurk sourced a place that roger was going to evaluate based on the experience that jim and i had with ours getting rebuilt.
Both of ours started leaking after about 6 mos. Jim ended up going w a new one from roger (as well as the doc brown kit- another story all together) and I'm about to get a new one from roger as well.
Mine has a very small leak, but it makes a big mess all over the font of my engine, belly pan, etc....
I say bite the bullit and go w the new one.
My GTS cooler was leaking when I first got it. Jim mayzurk sourced a place that roger was going to evaluate based on the experience that jim and i had with ours getting rebuilt.
Both of ours started leaking after about 6 mos. Jim ended up going w a new one from roger (as well as the doc brown kit- another story all together) and I'm about to get a new one from roger as well.
Mine has a very small leak, but it makes a big mess all over the font of my engine, belly pan, etc....
I say bite the bullit and go w the new one.
06-17-2013, 03:44 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
There's no sign of a crack or any sort of impact. However, I did have a slight run-in with one of those curb-sized barriers they put in the front of some parking spots. Scraped the bottom of the spoiler and tore it a little as I backed out of the parking spot. Maybe an impact like this is enough to break the seal between the cooler body and the return tube.
If you ever bottom out the front of a GTS there is a good chance you will crack the oil cooler due to its location.
Happened to me.
Was lucky to find a good used one at 20th Street Autoparts in Arizona.
I sent my busted one to Roger as he was working on refurbishing them.
Perhaps give him a call.
Happened to me.
Was lucky to find a good used one at 20th Street Autoparts in Arizona.
I sent my busted one to Roger as he was working on refurbishing them.
Perhaps give him a call.
06-17-2013, 04:00 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the offer of the pressure tester. I may take you up on it, but I think I'll first try to see if I can see the leak with the car running and up on jack stands.
The pattern of spilled oil shows the leak is at the end where the hoses from the engine connect. The joint between the return tube and the cooler body is the obvious candidate. I'm wondering, though, if underneath all the cooling fins there is a similar tube entering the cooler body. If the leak is there, it could be difficult, if not impossible to repair.
I'd be very interested if you find somebody that can solder these joints. I'd also be VERY interested if you can bring down the price of your oil breather set up.
The pattern of spilled oil shows the leak is at the end where the hoses from the engine connect. The joint between the return tube and the cooler body is the obvious candidate. I'm wondering, though, if underneath all the cooling fins there is a similar tube entering the cooler body. If the leak is there, it could be difficult, if not impossible to repair.
I'd be very interested if you find somebody that can solder these joints. I'd also be VERY interested if you can bring down the price of your oil breather set up.
I've never tried epoxy, but it certainly might work.
If you'd like to borrow my pressure tester, I can have Mary send it up to you.
If you are going to try this, I'd remove the cooler and pressure test it in a bucket of water. Note which tube leaks and where....usually at the very end of the tube. You could then clean this entire area very thoroughly and then "flow" a layer of slow drying epoxy, over the entire area. If necessary, you could even build a small dam out of plastic to get a thicker layer of epoxy.
It's only a matter of time, until Porsche runs out of these coolers. I've got a few "leakers" here, right now. I'm having some aluminum fittings (trying to bring the price of the oil breather kit down....hand making "billet" fittings, one at a time is very time consuming/costly) done by a company that specializes in the process of "soldering" fittings together. I'll talk to them and see if they can do coolers....it's the same process.
If you'd like to borrow my pressure tester, I can have Mary send it up to you.
If you are going to try this, I'd remove the cooler and pressure test it in a bucket of water. Note which tube leaks and where....usually at the very end of the tube. You could then clean this entire area very thoroughly and then "flow" a layer of slow drying epoxy, over the entire area. If necessary, you could even build a small dam out of plastic to get a thicker layer of epoxy.
It's only a matter of time, until Porsche runs out of these coolers. I've got a few "leakers" here, right now. I'm having some aluminum fittings (trying to bring the price of the oil breather kit down....hand making "billet" fittings, one at a time is very time consuming/costly) done by a company that specializes in the process of "soldering" fittings together. I'll talk to them and see if they can do coolers....it's the same process.
06-19-2013, 04:57 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I ran the car on jack stands today until the oil thermostat opened. I can see oil trickling from the cooling fins at the driver's end. I got the impression that they only leaked where the return tube enters the main body, but I guess that's not true.
Unless someone knows how to fix a leak in this spot, it looks like I'm in for a new cooler.
Unless someone knows how to fix a leak in this spot, it looks like I'm in for a new cooler.
06-19-2013, 05:37 PM
#15
Former Sponsor
I ran the car on jack stands today until the oil thermostat opened. I can see oil trickling from the cooling fins at the driver's end. I got the impression that they only leaked where the return tube enters the main body, but I guess that's not true.
Unless someone knows how to fix a leak in this spot, it looks like I'm in for a new cooler.
Unless someone knows how to fix a leak in this spot, it looks like I'm in for a new cooler.
If the return tube leaked into the main body, it would be easy to weld.
The people that Roger had fixing them flowed some aluminum solder all around where the tubes joined the body. I thought that perhaps the guys that did aluminum oven brazing could fix them...I've got a couple places that do this, around here...they "glue" AN swept tube fittings together, using this process.