R-12/R12a/R-134a
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
R-12/R12a/R-134a
Going to start this debate and I'm sure it is going to be about as fun as the oil/torque/coolant threads.
We are running out of a steady supply of R-12. I typically stock up over the winter when no one is looking and I guess that my stock of 60lb and two cases of cans was not enough. It's only May. Normally I can grab a few things of it from guys down South and that has not been the case. One would think with the porous southern border we could get more than terrorists and illegals but I must not have the proper connections.
Our Northern friends are going to R-12a as 134a seems to be out the door. Now don't go all Canuk on us here ImooOo/69. What are you guys using and what is everyone planning on converting too. Fvcking EPA down here has screwed us for years and now we can't even get the good **** from Mexico. Looking to see what everyone is going to and if this helps trend the future, so be it.
We are running out of a steady supply of R-12. I typically stock up over the winter when no one is looking and I guess that my stock of 60lb and two cases of cans was not enough. It's only May. Normally I can grab a few things of it from guys down South and that has not been the case. One would think with the porous southern border we could get more than terrorists and illegals but I must not have the proper connections.
Our Northern friends are going to R-12a as 134a seems to be out the door. Now don't go all Canuk on us here ImooOo/69. What are you guys using and what is everyone planning on converting too. Fvcking EPA down here has screwed us for years and now we can't even get the good **** from Mexico. Looking to see what everyone is going to and if this helps trend the future, so be it.
#2
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Placerville, CA
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My 86 was converted to 134a before I purchased it and it ran well (cold!) for four years until "something" happened 1.5 years ago and all my freon leaked out. I'm hoping to get the A/C running again this summer so interested to hear what folks think.
#3
Nordschleife Master
Up here in the cold white north, for the 1 month of the year we could use a little AC
When I do an AC service I use R12a. It doesn't permeate the flexible hoses like R134a. It doesn't need 3 college degrees to buy, cools just as well or better than R12, and runs with lower system pressures than R134a.
Now R12a is a hydrocarbon based refrigerant yes. But it's auto ignition temp (nearly 1600F), is equal to or higher than R134a (which WILL flash/burn). So if you are worries about a fire under your hood just eliminate any ignition point under your hood. Meaning replace your 30 year old ignition leads! And you will be fine.
Keep in mind that our heads will melt at around 1600F as well. So if it auto ignites, you have already messed something up!
When I do an AC service I use R12a. It doesn't permeate the flexible hoses like R134a. It doesn't need 3 college degrees to buy, cools just as well or better than R12, and runs with lower system pressures than R134a.
Now R12a is a hydrocarbon based refrigerant yes. But it's auto ignition temp (nearly 1600F), is equal to or higher than R134a (which WILL flash/burn). So if you are worries about a fire under your hood just eliminate any ignition point under your hood. Meaning replace your 30 year old ignition leads! And you will be fine.
Keep in mind that our heads will melt at around 1600F as well. So if it auto ignites, you have already messed something up!
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Colin, looking in to that as a replacement. Odd that it is not available down here in the very lower 48 (Texas) that I can find. Please tell me that is not the same as that crap Freeze 12.
#5
Rennlist Member
Sean, I am down to 30 lb r12 and a few cans. I have tried autofrost with very good results, however it is nla also. Bought a product called 'enviro-safe' but have not tried it yet. A six oz. can is equivelant to 18oz r-12. Have not checked flea bay lately, but seems prices were getting high a few month ago.
#7
Intermediate
I have used R12a before, and had no problems. It is a hydrocarbon blend, I think mostly propane/butane. As far as I am aware it is fully compatible with R12 systems so that's a big plus, and it is more efficient than 134 I believe. Fairly cheap up here and easy to use.
Thing is, there must be some ignition risk, right? I had a fuel line fire in my 928 last fall around the 14-pin connector area, and it melted through one of the AC hoses. Wonder what that would have been like if it had been R12a instead of R12?
Thing is, there must be some ignition risk, right? I had a fuel line fire in my 928 last fall around the 14-pin connector area, and it melted through one of the AC hoses. Wonder what that would have been like if it had been R12a instead of R12?
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#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have used R12a before, and had no problems. It is a hydrocarbon blend, I think mostly propane/butane. As far as I am aware it is fully compatible with R12 systems so that's a big plus, and it is more efficient than 134 I believe. Fairly cheap up here and easy to use.
Thing is, there must be some ignition risk, right? I had a fuel line fire in my 928 last fall around the 14-pin connector area, and it melted through one of the AC hoses. Wonder what that would have been like if it had been R12a instead of R12?
Thing is, there must be some ignition risk, right? I had a fuel line fire in my 928 last fall around the 14-pin connector area, and it melted through one of the AC hoses. Wonder what that would have been like if it had been R12a instead of R12?
#10
Race Car
The replacement for R134a may continue to be delayed, forcing the continued production of R134a. 30lb R134a cylinders are still readily available and under $100.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
#13
Rennlist Member
Sean,
I think Freeze12 is mostly 134a with some additives to make it compatible with the oils used with R12. I've never had much luck with it. We've got a local guy with an R12 stash I'll be hitting up soon, hope he comes through....
I think Freeze12 is mostly 134a with some additives to make it compatible with the oils used with R12. I've never had much luck with it. We've got a local guy with an R12 stash I'll be hitting up soon, hope he comes through....
#14
Freeze12 is outta biz.... no more stock unless you stocked up.... glws...