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Purists who hate the chevy conversion.... this car is legit.

 
Old 11-05-2012, 09:48 PM
  #31  
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Or.. yeah do what IMO did, didn't you say you were running 12's at the track with that setup Imre?
He did with a 12.4 time I believe and that was with a conservative Paxton setup, IIRC. Likely if/when he does it again, it will be similar in the DIY & cost area but with improved performance using some lessons learned and newer components. Good stuff.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:36 PM
  #32  
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It was high 12s, 12.87sec. Since then the catalytics were pulled so the car is probably 0.1sec faster. With a new clutch, maybe a little bit more but it will not be more than mid 12s. However anywhere in the 12s is usually considered to be in the fast catetgory. I'm happy with what I have.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:52 PM
  #33  
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You've certainly gotten a lot of attention; three pages in one day! Wow! I didn't read all of the comments but I do have a 2000 GMC with 230,000 miles and, of course, a 1987 S4. You seem to have the background to make such a conversion.

The 350 engine has never had the heads off and never changed the plugs. It is an iron horse with incredible reliability. Itis fuel injected and I would suggest that you might want to use the same. Carbureators are a pita. There are many hot rod modifications you can make to such an engine. Still, I feel that the S4 engine is all that I need.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:02 AM
  #34  
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I agree on the 350 being a great engine. My 1999 350 Tahoe has 212K and is a great workhorse and great engine for its purpose. Would I want it in the S4? Not a chance. I am very happy with a boosted 928 engine that is pretty reliable itself and gets great miliage.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:06 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Imo000 View Post
It was high 12s, 12.87sec. Since then the catalytics were pulled so the car is probably 0.1sec faster. With a new clutch, maybe a little bit more but it will not be more than mid 12s. However anywhere in the 12s is usually considered to be in the fast catetgory. I'm happy with what I have.
Have you ever dyno'd your setup and what amount of boost are you running?
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:14 AM
  #36  
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If you want 500bhp then convert to standalone and add a turbo with regrinding the cams, and possibly a different intake manifold.
I will be boosting a local fellows 928 with a mid mount turbo (4.7L), and I will be able to get more than 500 crank HP with that setup.
I got 408rwhp with 5.8# boost on my car after 1.5 hours of dyno tuning (so heat soaked). Though it's a 32V, and I have big cams.
Hacker has over 400rwhp on his 4.5 or 4.7 for a long while now with a CS SC. He again has no issues!
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:26 AM
  #37  
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There is NO way I would replace any 928 engine with a SBC (i.e., what most people refer to as a "350"). Now, ANY of the LS engines I would consider as a good swap. But not a SBC. Two completely different animals here.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:00 AM
  #38  
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Truthfully, this is a bit like going to a "Christian Mingle" site and asking how they feel about homosexual **** sex....
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:12 AM
  #39  
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But but he is getting all his data directly from Renegade..... early 5 speed handles 500 HP
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:49 AM
  #40  
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People often consider the 928 unreliable, well, it really isn't. It's just that because they are cheap to get into, you get people who are cheap buying them, so most preventive maintenance goes undone, and when something finally breaks they go on a tangent somewhere about how ****ty and unreliable old Porsche's are. I've accepted that i'll need to put at least what i paid for it into my 87 S4 to make it truly mint.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:04 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by GregBBRD View Post
Truthfully, this is a bit like going to a "Christian Mingle" site and asking how they feel about homosexual **** sex....

Amen!
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:23 AM
  #42  
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wow guys. awesome input. I appreciate all the comments. Like I have said, I LOVE the 928. The research I have been doing.. and again I am new to all of this... shows me that for every 1 hp I can get out of a 928 motor, I can get 5 out of a SBC. I know it is going against the grain to even consider this kind of swap. I have been a devout Porsche owner for over 20 years off and on, and in my younger years I probably would have slapped someone for suggesting it to me.

I am older now, and have done a few engine swaps. My 2000 mustang GT that I have fully built runs legit low 10's and with a turbo could be well into the 8's. I am not looking for that kind of power in my 928, but at the same time 200 rwhp just isnt enough to do that beautiful body any justice.

Putting an s4 motor in it, or boosting it is very costly....and I not denying worth it once its done. I just think that I can put together nice 928 with a 400 hp fuel injected reliable motor for 10k. I have spoken on the phone to an owner of one of the renegade cars. The guy is not affiliated with the company, I found him by searching google for forum posts. He is very happy with his car. It combines thew beauty and near perfect balance of the 928 with very good performance at a blue color price. Looking at some of the posts on here.... you guys have REALLY nice cars. I would be proud to own any one of them. I currently own 6 cars, and my goal is to have this 928 done before the summer.

In the mean time though.. I really want to get this thing running. I just ask (maybe sounding stupid) that you guys dont hold my renegade plans against me when it comes to asking advice about getting this 4.5 running. I have to referee some cage fights this saturday, and wont have time to go through the whole fuse box and pull the timing cover to undo the idiotic oil damage I did the other day to the motor. I am hoping that by two saturdays from now, I will get the to hear the roar and purr of that motor.... other than on carb cleaner.

I think the motor is sound. on carb cleaner it sounds smooth, with no knocking, vibrations or lifter tapping.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:17 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by GregBBRD View Post
Truthfully, this is a bit like going to a "Christian Mingle" site and asking how they feel about homosexual **** sex....
This forum needs the like button.

Joking aside, if you are going to do an engine swap do yourself a favor and use a LSx instead of a gen1/2 smallblock. The LS stuff is a ton better. You can get a AL block 5.3 for $700. LS6 intake and longtubes on one of those engine will make 360whp. Toss a cam in it and you've got 400whp. There is just no point in building the old engines when the LS stuff makes more power more reliably for not much money. That and you can use the factory controller, which is much more powerful and easier to tune, rather than the Edelbrock stuff.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:50 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by ledee416 View Post
wow guys. awesome input. I appreciate all the comments. Like I have said, I LOVE the 928. The research I have been doing.. and again I am new to all of this... shows me that for every 1 hp I can get out of a 928 motor, I can get 5 out of a SBC. I know it is going against the grain to even consider this kind of swap. I have been a devout Porsche owner for over 20 years off and on, and in my younger years I probably would have slapped someone for suggesting it to me.

I am older now, and have done a few engine swaps. My 2000 mustang GT that I have fully built runs legit low 10's and with a turbo could be well into the 8's. I am not looking for that kind of power in my 928, but at the same time 200 rwhp just isnt enough to do that beautiful body any justice.

Putting an s4 motor in it, or boosting it is very costly....and I not denying worth it once its done. I just think that I can put together nice 928 with a 400 hp fuel injected reliable motor for 10k. I have spoken on the phone to an owner of one of the renegade cars. The guy is not affiliated with the company, I found him by searching google for forum posts. He is very happy with his car. It combines thew beauty and near perfect balance of the 928 with very good performance at a blue color price. Looking at some of the posts on here.... you guys have REALLY nice cars. I would be proud to own any one of them. I currently own 6 cars, and my goal is to have this 928 done before the summer.

In the mean time though.. I really want to get this thing running. I just ask (maybe sounding stupid) that you guys dont hold my renegade plans against me when it comes to asking advice about getting this 4.5 running. I have to referee some cage fights this saturday, and wont have time to go through the whole fuse box and pull the timing cover to undo the idiotic oil damage I did the other day to the motor. I am hoping that by two saturdays from now, I will get the to hear the roar and purr of that motor.... other than on carb cleaner.

I think the motor is sound. on carb cleaner it sounds smooth, with no knocking, vibrations or lifter tapping.
No need to keep defending your love of the 928 appearance. Most here feel the same. I think what some are trying to tell you is that there have been several others here who have gone the Renegade route and ended up spending far more than they planned, despite similar statements to yours.

The recommendations to boost a stock 928 engine seems to be a good not too expensive way to get the giggles/HP/$ ratio you suggest.

I think the other point that has been made but not clearly enough, putting a 500hp engine into an early 80's 928 may not be the best option. Find a more current platform (engineless S4) seems to be an option.

And just as important, if you are planning on increasing the engine output by a factor of 2.5 you must address this in the suspension/brakes etc. Just dropping in the Renegade kit without making sure everything else is also refreshed or new seems, well, silly and dangerous.

FWIW, I don't like driving cars with uncertain components. Does not matter the manufacturer, I like knowing my vehicles are always capable of providing or exceeding the level of factory performance and safety. If I were to perform a Detroit option on any 928 I'd make damn sure the rest of the car was ready for it before dropping $$$ for the drivetrain. I like Tony77's project. Basically a rescued car that is being updated and modded in ways that vastly increase performance and safety. Looks most excellent as well.

I just wish someone would figure out how to craft up a Ford drivetrain option. I don't fantasize about engine swaps very much but that new Coyote engine is pretty spectacular.

I think I would spend some time searching out others, besides the one person you have spoke to, who have done the 928 Renegade swap for a complete assessment. Only listening to Renegade means you are not getting the full story. Nothing against them or their longstanding product, just something I would do before digging in.

Regardless your choice, this is a great forum and as Tony stated you have access to the best minds and experience here in this forum. I am of no use, but most others are. Good luck and keep us informed.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:45 PM
  #45  
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I am 1000% with you on the Ford option. I am a die hard Ford guy.

Of course I am going to give the brakes and suspension a going over. More than likely, I will go to coil overs. I run coil overs on my mustang and they are very enjoyable.

The guys at Renegade have told me that as long as the braking and suspension systems are in good working order, that they are more than capable of supporting a 500 hp car, which is more than I am going to put into it anyway.

As for boosting stock 928 motor... I know guys do it all the time, but I am not a fan of boosting powdered or cast rods or pistons. If they arent fully forged internals, I dont believe in putting boost on them. Addtionally, to boost the motor I have would be even worse, since not only is it not forged, but it is old. A used s4 motor with moderate to high mileage is selling for around 2500 or more (unless someone knows otherwise), so that isnt an option either when I can put a brand new fully forged and balanced SBC in there for the same price.
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