James Bailey

The master has two pistons...one drives right front and left rear, the other left front and right rear.... on the firewall near the booster are two rear brake proportioning valves which limit pressure to the rear brakes for balance and ensure that the fronts lock up first. Maybe he undid one of those ??? but WHY ??
And given that level of stupidity ( P O )you need to check EVERYTHING or you might have a wheel fall off. That Euro is sounding better all the time

ledee416

lol.. I hear you. He claims that in order to tow the car on a dolley... with front wheels on the ground he needed to undo the brake pressure. I am assuming he means that the brake was pressing the rotor too hard and he couldn't push the car, but I dont know for sure. Either way, he has told me that he loosened one of the lines for this to happen.

When I attempted to bleed the front left, I started to do so, and it was working well, then all of a sudden it sucked a lot of fluid out and then stopped. This makes sense if the line wasnt attached, or was loose enough to not be making flow with the master. I was baffled when this happened. it made no sense to me, so I left the bleeder screw open and pumped the brakes.... still no fluid, even though the reservoir was full. Now knowing that the line probably wasnt attached, it makes sense. I just need to figure out where the moron disconnected it, reconnect it and bleed.

He didnt have the car too long, and other than pulling the gas tank, replacing the fuel pump and screwing with my brakes, I dont think he did any work to the car. The hideous tail lights, and front end damage was done by another moron.

all that being said, if i can get brakes today, I will be good. I was able to get a back bumper cover from someone on Cl for 50 bucks. I can put that on with some new tail lights, and sell the car since it now runs and drives. Of course I will be robbing it of its interior first to complete my 84 euro.

hopefully when I get home in a few hours I will be able to report that I have brakes. I am going to check the lines on the master itself, and then the two pressure regulators. I am not sure why he kept refering to a "brake block" under the hood. I guess I will try to see whats up today.

WallyP

All of this is speculation - only you can look at the car and see what the problem really is.

What I have gathered so far is:
- PO tried to pull the car on a dolly, but brakes were dragging. He disconnected a front brake line at the proportioning valve so as to release the rear brake or brakes. Apparently it worked.
- You pressed on the brake pedal - it went to the floor, with some (very little) braking effect.
- You checked the brake pedal free play, and reported that you had free play.
- You attempted to bleed the left front caliper using a vacuum bleeder. You got a little fluid, then a burst of fluid, then no more fluid. Still no pedal.
- You attempted to bleed the brakes by pumping the pedal with the bleeder open. Still no fluid at the left front caliper, no fluid flow under the car from the supposedly disconnected line and no fluid flow from the reservoir.

Speculations and suspicions:
- If the rear brake or brakes were applied when the PO tried to move the car, and were released when he disconnected a brake line at the front, one possibility is that one or more of the brake hoses are faulty and holding applied brake pressure. If the disconnected line is on the left front/right rear circuit, those hoses are the prime suspects.
- Another possibility is that the brake piston in the master cylinder is blocking the ports in the master cylinder, preventing the flow of fluid. Free play in the pedal should normally prevent that.
- If the brake line is still disconnected, pumping the brake pedal should pump fluid from the reservoir thru the proportioning valve at the disconnected line. If the line is now connected, it should pump fluid thru the open bleed port.

The brake system is pretty simple. If you think that you understand how it works well enough to bet your life on your work, then you need to look at the entire brake system and see what is wrong. If you need help, any competent brake shop or conventional garage should be able to help you. There is nothing exotic about the brake system in your car.

ledee416

I am not sure if he was attempting to disconnect rear brakes. he towed the car with the rear wheels hooked up and the front wheels rolling behind on the ground. other than that wally, you are right on.

ledee416

ok UPDATE: very weird. like i said, I checked the freeplay in the brake pedal. it appears as if there is a small (very small) amount of pedal travel before the piston is engaged. I am 99% sure of this.

I decided today to undo the front left line from the master. When i had someone pump the pedal nothing came out. when I put my finger over the hole on the master, I could feel air, and then when the pedal came up, corresponding vacuum. I checked the reservoir... it is full.

so what the heck is going on?

Hilton

Time to remove the master and reservoir, and actually bench inspect/test them.

ledee416

wally seems to think it isnt a master issue. I am going to wait until I see what his take on it is.

WallyP

"I decided today to undo the front left line from the master. When i had someone pump the pedal nothing came out. when I put my finger over the hole on the master, I could feel air, and then when the pedal came up, corresponding vacuum. I checked the reservoir... it is full."

Sounds as if the port from the reservoir to the master cylinder is plugged, with some possibility that it is just the reservoir vent that is plugged.

Take the cap off the reservoir. Have the helper push and release the pedal. Put your finger over the outlet as the pedal bottoms out, remove it just before the pedal goes down. (The finger is acting as a check valve.) If you still get no fluid, time to pull the master cylinder. Do a search for procedures.

ledee416

do you mean put my finger over the outlet of where I disconnected a line from the master?

WallyP

"I decided today to undo the front left line from the master. When i had someone pump the pedal nothing came out. when I put my finger over the hole on the master, I could feel air, and then when the pedal came up, corresponding vacuum. I checked the reservoir... it is full."

Yes.

ledee416

Wally, I am sorry man I am kind of slow it seems. I just want to make sure I understand what u are saying.

now that the line is off of the master, I have someone push the pedal down to the floor and then release it.

then I have them push the pedal again, and right before the pedal is all the way to the floor, I put my finger over the hole. then when it is to the floor I take it off?

am i understanding this correctly? Sorry if I seem mentally challenged... I am starting to feel that way. I am a little confused how my finger would be acting like a check valve.

a check valve only allows flow in one direction if I am understanding its purpose. for some reason I cant visualize what you are saying to do. Again sorry to keep bugging you.

WallyP

If the vent port in the brake fluid reservoir is plugged, there would eventually be a vacuum in the reservoir that would prevent fluid from entering the master cylinder.

If you remove the reservoir cap there can be no vacuum in the reservoir.

If you have your finger off the outlet as the pedal goes down, it will allow air to flow from the master cylinder. If you put your finger over the outlet while the pedal is down, and then the helper lets the pedal up, a vacuum will be formed in the master cylinder that should pull fluid from the reservoir. If you repeat this operation several times, and no fluid comes out, the port from the reservoir into the master cylinder is blocked.

If there is free play in the pedal push rod, the pistons in the master cylinder should not be held over the ports, blocking them.

If you can find no external reason for the port being blocked, it is time to remove the master cylinder.

Again - you are betting your life, and the life of the next owner, on your understanding of, and ability to repair, the brake system.

ledee416

gotcha. That is what I thought you meant, but I wasnt sure. Hopefully it will work. If not, master cylinder here I come.