Oil change (FUCH Pro R)
10-19-2012, 12:53 AM
#1
Oil change (FUCH Pro R)
My 91 S4 just had an oil changed yesterday. I am using FUCH Pro R 15W50 this time. I know that 15W50 is not in the owner's manual recommended list but it is very hard to find 20W50 here in where I live. The last owner had the car oil changed in the local Prosche dealer and they used Mobil One 0W40 which is a bit thin for the weather here I guess (37c in hottest summer day and 5c in coldest winter day).
After the oil change yesterday using 15W50, the engine is now more quiet, responsive and I have 0.5 to 1 reading more for the oil pressure gauage in the dash. Now is sitting at 2.5 when fully hot. Seems no change on the coolant temp , sitting at just before the last white line when hot. Will see how is the long term run for this oil and update later.
After the oil change yesterday using 15W50, the engine is now more quiet, responsive and I have 0.5 to 1 reading more for the oil pressure gauage in the dash. Now is sitting at 2.5 when fully hot. Seems no change on the coolant temp , sitting at just before the last white line when hot. Will see how is the long term run for this oil and update later.
10-19-2012, 02:23 AM
#2
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That sounds better for the engine.
Even without that particular oil and weight being in the Owner's Operating Manual, it is a sensible choice from the available newer options.
Yes, 0W40 is too light for a 928.
Even without that particular oil and weight being in the Owner's Operating Manual, it is a sensible choice from the available newer options.
Yes, 0W40 is too light for a 928.
10-19-2012, 06:06 AM
#5
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It's a wear protectant, important for our cam shafts. See for example here http://classiccars.about.com/od/main...l-Additive.htm
The consensus here on rennlist that zddp levels should be around 1200 to 1300 ppm phosphorus and zinc. So when looking for oil, I always look for those specs. Sadly those numbers are seldomly published. I usually email the manufacturer.
Nice car, looks good!
The consensus here on rennlist that zddp levels should be around 1200 to 1300 ppm phosphorus and zinc. So when looking for oil, I always look for those specs. Sadly those numbers are seldomly published. I usually email the manufacturer.
Nice car, looks good!
10-19-2012, 07:40 AM
#7
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Here is a copy of an email I got from a specialist oil supplier (Opie Oils)
in the UK in reply to a query about ZDDP levels.
As you can see their advisor has a 928 himself.
The ZDDP levels in Fuchs Titan Race seems plenty high
and for my next change I will be going for the 15W-50.
Hope this offers some illumination.
Thanks for the mail.
Is your 928 and S2, S4 GTS etc?
I have noticed there is much focus on high ZDDP, high viscosity mineral oils in the 928 community (mainly influenced by America, Australia and New Zealand). Unless the engine is badly worn, there is just no need for these oils. If the engine is in good shape then a good 5w-40 synthetic is the way to go, for decent levels of ZDDP look at the ester based performance oils such as the Fuchs Titan Race, Motul 300v, Millers CFS, Gulf Competition etc. These all have ZDDP levels of around 1400ppm and to be honest this is more than enough, any more (adding additives) will not achieve anything. If the engine suffers high consumption or is used on track then look at a 5w-50 or 10w-50 of the same quality.
Don't bother with mineral oil, despite the 928 being quite old now they were way ahead of their time when produced and were crying out for decent synthetics the day they left the factory. If it helps I have a 1989 928 S4 and she has run Fuchs Titan Race Pro S 5w-40 for the last 8 years with many hard miles under her belt! http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-656-5w-40.aspx
I would not advise using a mineral 20w-50, they deserve better!
in the UK in reply to a query about ZDDP levels.
As you can see their advisor has a 928 himself.
The ZDDP levels in Fuchs Titan Race seems plenty high
and for my next change I will be going for the 15W-50.
Hope this offers some illumination.
Thanks for the mail.
Is your 928 and S2, S4 GTS etc?
I have noticed there is much focus on high ZDDP, high viscosity mineral oils in the 928 community (mainly influenced by America, Australia and New Zealand). Unless the engine is badly worn, there is just no need for these oils. If the engine is in good shape then a good 5w-40 synthetic is the way to go, for decent levels of ZDDP look at the ester based performance oils such as the Fuchs Titan Race, Motul 300v, Millers CFS, Gulf Competition etc. These all have ZDDP levels of around 1400ppm and to be honest this is more than enough, any more (adding additives) will not achieve anything. If the engine suffers high consumption or is used on track then look at a 5w-50 or 10w-50 of the same quality.
Don't bother with mineral oil, despite the 928 being quite old now they were way ahead of their time when produced and were crying out for decent synthetics the day they left the factory. If it helps I have a 1989 928 S4 and she has run Fuchs Titan Race Pro S 5w-40 for the last 8 years with many hard miles under her belt! http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-656-5w-40.aspx
I would not advise using a mineral 20w-50, they deserve better!
Last edited by brianrheffron; 10-19-2012 at 07:42 AM. Reason: spelling
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10-19-2012, 08:00 AM
#8
Thanks Brianrheffron for the information. FUCH (former name was Silkolene) is recommended by the local VW community here. I had used once long time ago with my VW Golf and it was good. The Pro R 15W50 I use is selling USD20/L here in Hong Kong.
10-19-2012, 08:08 AM
#9
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It's a wear protectant, important for our cam shafts. See for example here http://classiccars.about.com/od/main...l-Additive.htm
The consensus here on rennlist that zddp levels should be around 1200 to 1300 ppm phosphorus and zinc. So when looking for oil, I always look for those specs. Sadly those numbers are seldomly published. I usually email the manufacturer.
Nice car, looks good!
The consensus here on rennlist that zddp levels should be around 1200 to 1300 ppm phosphorus and zinc. So when looking for oil, I always look for those specs. Sadly those numbers are seldomly published. I usually email the manufacturer.
Nice car, looks good!
I have just spent a fruitless hour trying to find the specifications.
Email to Fuchs it is!
10-19-2012, 09:18 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by Opie Oils
I have noticed there is much focus on high ZDDP, high viscosity mineral oils in the 928 community (mainly influenced by America, Australia and New Zealand). Unless the engine is badly worn, there is just no need for these oils. If the engine is in good shape then a good 5w-40 synthetic is the way to go, for decent levels of ZDDP look at the ester based performance oils such as the Fuchs Titan Race, Motul 300v, Millers CFS, Gulf Competition etc. These all have ZDDP levels of around 1400ppm and to be honest this is more than enough, any more (adding additives) will not achieve anything. If the engine suffers high consumption or is used on track then look at a 5w-50 or 10w-50 of the same quality.
As per the owners manual 20w50 is recommended down to -10C, 15w50 down to -15C. Most 928's don't see these kind of cold temperatures anyway. In the UK it barely ever goes below freezing even in the winter! 10w40/10w50 maxes out at 35C. 5w40 wasn't around when our cars were designed but 5w30 was and according to the chart it isn't to be used above 0C!
I hate this kind of mis-information!
To the OP, you made the right choice with the Titan Pro Race 15w50 that is a very high quality oil with high ZDDP. It was formally known as Silkolene Pro R.
10-19-2012, 01:15 PM
#11
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wow, record time for a new thread on oil after the last one was closed. IBTL
10-19-2012, 04:24 PM
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10-19-2012, 04:40 PM
#13
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every japanese car that I have worked on has had camshaft damage due to the thin 0w40 oils run over there and the high heat that the cars see puttering around in city traffic.
The ZDDP levels are needed to be around 1200ppm for our engines.
The ZDDP levels are needed to be around 1200ppm for our engines.
10-19-2012, 04:46 PM
#14
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10-19-2012, 05:30 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Sorry if this has already been answered, but if we're worried about enough ZDDP in the oil, what about ZDDP oil additives, like the below?
http://www.eastwood.com/zddp-plus-oi...RCCODE=1SE0761
http://www.eastwood.com/zddp-plus-oi...RCCODE=1SE0761