MainePorsche

I'm not one for the superfluous, but I thought this worth posting for comment.
I was following a recent thread on 'Alternatives to 15-50' when interesting comments on zinc surfaced. Bill Ball attached a table about the zinc content in Mobil products. As I use synthetic 15-50, I noted the ppm content of zinc in the 15-50. I began reading more about the place of zinc in crankcase oil. Two high performance guys in two different articles said they even added some graphite to their crankcase. Their position, as I understood it, was that the metal aids in the the coating/binding of the oil to the parts.
So I got to thinking that maybe a little more zinc than the approx. 1100 ppm in Mobil syn. 15-50 could be helpful. So I gave it a try.
As I keep my oil level quite specific, I wanted a product with the most amount of zinc in the smallest volume. After researching I decided to go with the Risoline 3x Concentrated product. Supposedly this 3x formula has as much zinc in the 11 oz. bottle as their original 32 oz jug contained. They say to add a bottle (11 oz.), but with 1100 ppm already there, I opted to experiment with a half bottle first.
I got to say Guys, I'm not one for the superfluous or excessive coloring, but there was a noticeable difference on the first drive. May car runs very well. Steady humm at 600 idle. Timing right on etc.. It felt different on my hands on the steering wheel, and sounded different too. Not to different, but pleasurably and just noticeably 'different'. Even when I picked up my 13 year old from soccer, as soon as we were at the first idle he said what did you do to the engine - it sounds 'smoother'. It's been on two days now, and I'm very pleased in thinking I may have improved the wear situation on some vital components
Will monitor.
Just thought I'd share.

rgs944

I can't say I have seen any noticable difference but I also run a zinc additive and think it is a good idea.

James-man

How many miles are on your current engine?

I gathered that additives are thought to benefit high mileage vehicles.

MainePorsche

I'm on the runway for 125k.

Bilal928S4

Where can you buy this Risoline 3x Concentrated and other zinc additives?

MainePorsche

I found it here.

PHIL928

Is it pretty much the same as STP Oil Treatment? I always add a couple of cans in when I do an oil change

rgs944

Found this to be a pretty good read for what its worth. http://www.baileycar.com/oil_additives_html.htm Not real flattering overall about additives of which I mostly agree. I think anything with zinc will have some good effects in the long run. I do like the point about the profit margin of these additives. They make a very convincing arguement that if these did what they claimed why would'nt the large corporate oil company's be cashing in on the sales of additives? Afterall, they have the engineers and money to make the best additives available.

jcorenman

There's been a lot written here on zinc, search for "ZDDP". The purpose of ZDDP in engine oil is to protect against a specific type of wear: sliding high-pressure contact, e.g. camshafts on flat tappets. I do not believe that ZDDP is considered useful as a general oil additive for pressure-fed bearings for example.

The EPA has mandated lower phosphorus levels (the "P" in ZDDP) in recent years for most oils, and most engines these days have roller tappets which make that a non-issue for most folks. So most general articles, which do not focus on the camshaft/flat-tappet issue, will not be very enlightening for our engines.

From what I have found, 1200 ppm of ZDDP (0.12%) is generally considered a "safe" level of ZDDP to protect cam lobes and lifters from galling and rapid wear. The 15w50 and 20w50 "specialty" oils discussed here (Brad Penn, Amsoil, Torco, Mobil-1, etc) all have 1200 ppm or more. Many others do also. But any oil in the 0w-30 range that is "SM" rated will have reduced (800 ppm) ZDDP levels, as well as most oils in the 0w40 or 5w40 range.

It is also worth noting that camshaft/lifter wear is not an older-engine problem. It has to do with contact pressure, which will be highest for new parts (due to microscopic "high spots") and doesn't change much as the engine wears. And anything that increases cam-to-lifter pressure (higher lift, stronger springs) increases the importance of an adequate ZDDP level.

If you do need to use a lower-zinc oil then a ZDDP additive would be an excellent idea. I do not know what the effect of higher levels of zinc would be, and whether there is any downside.

And if there is any question, it is quick and simple to send in a sample for a virgin oil analysis (VOA) and find out. We do that for the oils that we use, just to be sure. We like Blackstone but there are other labs as well.

curtisr

STP (no connection) is now offering a high-mileage variety. Presumably it would contain more ZDDP. When I had a look at the MSDS sheet it said that the zinc content was 1 to <5 %.

MainePorsche

Still, an additional day out on adding the zddp, and both my son (who is getting more knowledgable about 928 matters) and myself note the different (improved) feel and sound of the engine. Really.

pmooradian

The down side to excessive ZDDP is that it kills catalytic converters. Not really too much of a problem if you live in a state that doesn't do emissions testing, but here in CA it's done every couple of years and the requirements are getting more and more stringent. I had to replace the cats on my GTS at about 100k miles to get the car to pass. In any case, I've used Redline Engine Oil Break-In additive to boost ZDDP levels for assurance since I also had to replace a cam and tappets in my '89 because the lobes were pitted and worn. From what I understand, that's where you'll see the effects of low ZDDP oil use.

jstadter

+1 that ZDDP can be detrimental to the cats. That said, after researching what to use in my '71 SS454 Monte Carlo I ended up going with Cam-Shield. http://www.cam-shield.com/

Tom. M

While at the OCIC this past summer we took a tour of the B and G factory. They make all sorts of oil/fuel additives ( http://www.bgprod.com/home.html). During the tour we saw a bunch of mixing chambers and the like..and it was discussed how many different blends of oil products they mix in these. Someone asked how they clean them and they said that usually they just mix a batch of MOA and it just "cleaned" it out. Finally at the end ...it came out that MOA was their generic name for motor oil additive.. I guess the various viscosity oils they mixed all end up in a "blend" of MOA that is sold to consumers....

Not relevant to the ZDDP discussion but I found it funny to know what "went into" your average motor oil additive LOL

GregBBRD

Greg Nettles worked for one of the "big" oil producers. He doesn't seem to have much good to say about how they did things....