Lizard928

Greg,

What is your opinion on Ed's new guardian pump?

Rog,

What is the current price on Ed's new WP?

ROG100

It has been a while since I last sold one but circa $600.
I refer customers directly to Ed.

GregBBRD

I think that Ed took this all another step and assumed that the majority of water pump failures are caused by the load imposed by the cam belt on the bearing. He has installed a much larger bearing to handle the load of the cam belt and then essentially just uses the stock style water pump bearing to do the job of supporting/turning the impeller. The two bearings are completely independant.

If the failures are indeed due to, or amplified by, the load of the cam belt, this is genius. (Actually the entire idea and application of the idea is brillant, in itself.)

On the other hand, if the failures are due to the seal simply failing between the water and the impeller bearing, I'm not certain that this solution is going to cure this.

Only time and miles are going to provide the needed data.

I personally think that it is really important to remove/flush out the "collection" of debris that might possibly migrate and damage the seal. Flushing the block and the radiator of any pieces of calcium buildup certainly is going to help. If you have had an impeller migrate and damage the block, or have had a water pump bearing actually fail to the point where the impeller has "ground away" on the water pump casting, it will be imperative to get that debris out of the water system, so that metal will not damage the new water pump seal.

dr bob

^^ Words of wisdom and experience.


Several cars that have been here for fluid-swap clinics and other services that include draining the block (like timing belt service) have had lower galley drains blocked by debris and crud. A piece of welding rod is used to loosen the crud and get it free enough to come out through those threaded openings. The presence of this kind of debris is a telltale sign that a cooling system is under-maintained. Lots of threads and discussions on what coolant to use and whether a bottle of Water Wetter helps or not. Bottom line is that whatever cooling you decide on, you still need to replace it annually, and flush the system through the block drains.

The water pumps use a "mechanical seal", with a metal or ceramic face on one side and a carbon face on the other side. Coolant "lubricates" the area between the faces, and ultimately provides the final seal. If the metal face corrodes due to lack of buffers and lubricants in the coolant, it will quickly fail and leak. Spot of crud/debris in that sealing area, it will quickly fail and leak. Anything that might scratch or change the gap in that sealing area will cause a leak and failure.

Silicates in the coolant provide seal lubrication, but cause other problems with chemistry when temps get too high or there is a leak in the system. But that's getting into the "which coolant is best" discussion best held by others in a different place.

namasgt

Well maybe that is the problem with these pumps failing. That is probably why mine failed after 20K. What is usually recommended??? 50% coolant and 50% distilled water or 75% coolant or 100% coolant? I know some use 75% water and only 25% coolant.... I guess if no one has the proper answer we have to ask the water pump manufacturer to see what they recommend.

Roger?

Lizard928

70% water,
30% coolant for most cars.

dcrasta

Hindsite being 20-20, after you replace the waterpump, (might as well start over new belt as well), you will probably want to

1-Have the initial installer use a tension tool
2-Recheck at 1500M (with tension tool)
3-Recheck @ 11k and every 10k

Possibly the first shop too tight damaged the waterpump bearing, and the second shop getting the tension correct may have extended the time before failure, however a second check should have been performed (with the tension tool IMHO) to be sure of the tension and tracking of the belt (especially important on the 32v motors).


In any case it seems to be a standard waterpump failure however like others have noted the belt tension has an effect on the load the bearing must 'bear' ..

Best of luck..

Bilal928S4

I thought the recommendation, especially in the NE of USA, is 50% distilled water & 50% coolant. That's what I have been using with a bottle of water wetter.

depami

That yields maximum freeze protection but not necessarily maximum cooling capacity.

As some have eluded to, engine antifreeze isn’t the best heat transfer medium.

It is a big no-no to use engine antifreeze in hydronic heating systems for that very reason: it impedes heat transfer.

the flyin' scotsman

A weak mix will have catastrophic results to the block and head if the car lives in very cold climes. IIRC theres also a chemical reaction with the coolant given the compo of the block/heads hence the necessity to use specialized antifreeze and distilled water but Im no chemist.

I run a Laso pump V2 from Roger with a Porkensioner and Gates belt.....no worries, 60k and counting

YMMV

SeanR

Coolant wise, I just figure if I get a bit more distilled H2O than coolant I'm ok. I go a approx 50/50 with G-05 and distilled but as of the other day, I'm going to go with the Honda coolant at 100% to see what temp results I get. Heard some great stuff from the tuner/boost crowd and it's about $7.00 cheaper per gallon.

Erling G-P

Thanks,

The first installer does have a tension tool, albeit a generic one and thus not the Porsche specific version. I assume they used it, but wasn't looking over the mechanic's shoulder, so can't say for sure.

Am very much inclined to get the Porsche tool myself, as they're quite cheap. Then I could check it regularly - and lend the tool to any shop doing a cambelt change for me, if necessary.

Have had a full cambelt service performed - should have been done next year anyway, so it would have been sillly not to change the belt too, considering most of the cost is the water pump and the labor.

Regards,
Erling

Lizard928

Erling, the factory tool is around 5-600 last I checked.

Erling G-P

Yes, you're right. I just realised the actual factory tool would be in that price range. It was the Kempf tool I had in mind; sold by 928 Motorsports for ~$60. Don't know if it's accurate enough though ?

Regards,
Erling

Lizard928

Some say yes, others say no.