Speedtoys

Mark


You have instinctual race knowledge.


A16yr old does not. Everything you have said burns to the ground right there.


Passing on you acquired knowledge, does not build a reliable foundation for someone that _needs_ to build the basic blocks of performance driving.

Petty Jr's needs as expressed:
Go fast
Be loud


If the only personae is going to listen to, is you, your jobs to instill fundamentals. They can only be spoken to, the student needs to go experience and learn them over time.

That's why they don't pass out pilots licenses on the day you solo. A solo pilot can takeoff, go somewhere, find their way back, use the radio (talk to atc) do a pattern, and then land reasonably safely.

However, most people require 60-80 hours of instruction to pass a test that places importance on learned and applied situational fundamentals.


I'll make my last point short. I could whiteboard as a racer, official, and former licensed instructor on why what you are enabling our boy to feel he can do...is entirely detrimental to his stated goal of being a good track racer.

He's young, he doesn't want to work for it, he doesn't have to pay for the mistakes, and he'll listen to the first guy to tell him what he wants to hear.

You don't -get- to place the Kibort bible under his pillow and pass some learnin'. You drive your way, and nobody else does. When he runs into life's little uh-oh moments out there, ****ty car setup in the hands of inexperience becomes a force multiplier for bad.

I've been on a ton of incident review boards and calls with insurance companies concerning **** kids do on the rack to know better.


But if a 928 has to possibly die in the church of Kibort, so be it.

Glue it down, rev it up, build miles of push into it..and look out world. Here comes a fully trained driver (by US standards) your way in a 4000lb 300hp missile with no self control behind the wheel.


We were all 16, we know how it was.


Driver development _requires_ self paced fundamentals. Marathon runners started by crawling..it's all learned and carried behavior there. Same with racin'.


IMHO, kid needs a miata on street tires, ****ty ones, to fast forward these simple fundamentals of physics. All the great ones started simple on purpose.

IcemanG17

I am a firm believer in "learn how to drive a slow car fast!" as the 1st step in "racing"..... Hard to argue with Spec Miata, Spec E30 or even Spec 944 (slowest of the 3).......

justaguy

Ricky is a good responsible kid. I don't think he'll ever get to the limits of even the skiniest street tires while driving responsibly on the street. I have 225/245 on my street car and thats plenty for me. Big fat meats look cool but are not necessary on the street.

Lizard928

RP jr, Please listen to Brian, and Jeff. Both of these two are telling you the truth.
If you grew up driving on ice your whole life then came to a track I would still say that you need tons of practice. But with the fact that cali really doesnt get bad weather like that, the only thing you have to go off of is maybe a day or two of driving in heavy rain.

I would place money that if you took Brian, or Jeff to a wet track and put them into a 924 with street tires, they would be faster than you on that wet track with your "DOT" rubber on your car.

I got into Porsches at a very young age of 17, and boy am I glad I only had a 924. It taught me lots.
The 928 moved it to an entire new level. One that I would not put any novice into.
Also it would be wise as Brian suggests to get a 944 and start doing Spec racing or something like that. you will learn more much faster. Its the same thing in the motorcycle community, they all say you will learn faster on a slower bike as you can push it easier without having to respect the levels nearly as much.

justaguy

Forgot to mention I went back to skinny tires on my street car and I like to practice on the track with skinny tires on my race car the lack of grip forces you to be much smoother and a better driver.

justaguy

A 928 is not a learning tool. It's a beast on the track. Way too heavy and way too fast to really learn anything except may be break in a straight line.

IcemanG17

I would say I "learned" the most driving spec miati when my 928 was BROKEN..... I also think the Estate taught me a bunch too...mostly since I didn't have to think about shifting, I concentrated more on cornering-braking-smoothness

Racing in the RAIN was quite interesting.....quite a sharp learning curve but I am so glad I did it!!!!!! Sean races on ICE in the winter....thats gotta be FUN.....

Lizard928

Brian,

I grew up and started driving at the age of 7 on ice having to plow the 1100' driveway. Every winter I take my cars out and "play" on the ice to increase my skills. Those ice races cheat with big spikes on the tires, they need to take those off and try again! haha

GlenL

I bounce between my 944 NA and my 928 at the track. Mostly when the 928 is broken. It's a very different driving experience and very beneficial in learning. Less power means more attention to being fast in corners and that's really what a road course is all about.

The classic advice of "learn to drive" is amazingly true. I've been doing DE for 12 years. (Once the kids are out of college, I'll race. That's next year. Maybe the year after.) The path of the new drivers is well worn. They show up thinking they're "good" and decide quickly that they need more power to be as fast as they think they should be. Somewhere soon they have a scary off-road experience and either quit or get more determined. The number who start in a "momentum" (slow) car and add power after gaining skills is very low. It's too bad. That'd make them better in the long run and avoid problems.

Didn't read the whole thread but let me say that growing up in a place where fishtailing a RWD car in corners is something you can do 6 months a year does really help car control. It really combines the feel for turning into a slide while feathering the throttle by the seat pants or feel of momentum. Controlling a car at the limit of oversteer is well-practiced. Feeling for understeer is right there, too.

James Bailey

What most people really need is experience, seat time and some good instruction. And momentum cars require that you learn to be smooth if you ever want to be fast. A fast car can make poor drivers look like they are somewhat good.

RPetty2

I listen to Sean Brian Jeff and Kibort
I trust all what they say, but Sean and mark both said I'm not the kind to screw up in the 928, I have full respect of the car and Jeff said how we all were 16? Did u guys do track events and learn these cars at 16? I did and I'm thankfull, I get guys that all the time want to race me but Kibort was the one who tought me for no desire on the street, my 225 stock tiers were junk and needed new ones, I got great bigger rims for great price so I have bigger tiers, big deal no matter what I'm gonna have a street race tire, my dad Kibort like the idea of the grip and totally fine with it,

RPetty2

But I do like how all of you want me safe and I thank you very much for the concern, in a car like that to arguing with people I'm not an aggressor, I walk away and take the safer path and always will.

mark kibort

im working with ricky, and lots of this has been said for humor, but we all want his safety.

he is not a nut and will be safe. the car is fine, and should no problem for him, especially for his temperment.

thanks for the comments! we all care!

Mark