WBo2 LSU 4.9 + TechEdge 2J9: experience having feed it's NB signal into LH V2.3?
08-12-2012, 12:28 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
WBo2 LSU 4.9 + TechEdge 2J9: experience having feed it's NB signal into LH V2.3?
In the days to come I will be installing a WideBand o2 LSU 4.9 Bosch sensor + TechEdge 2J9 controller, so to initially monitor and log my car's AFM. With initially I mean that for the time being I will continue to make use of the default Porsche o2 sensor part number 928 606 128 01 feeding the LH V2.3 (I will however install a new one, as the existing one has never been exchanged since 1994 - as far as I can tell).
So my question is: do any Rennlister's have experience of no longer making use of the default Porsche o2 sensor, and instead using this particular WideBand o2 LSU 4.9 Bosch sensor + TechEdge 2J9 controller and using that controller simulated NarrowBand signal output directly to the LH v2.3?
In theory this should all work fine, however I wonder if our LH V2.3 uP is sampling the 02 sensor input fast enough so to be able to cope correctly with this kind of (what I hope would be an improved) setup.
Looking forward to receiving feedback, as real practical facts and experience always beat any good theory...
So my question is: do any Rennlister's have experience of no longer making use of the default Porsche o2 sensor, and instead using this particular WideBand o2 LSU 4.9 Bosch sensor + TechEdge 2J9 controller and using that controller simulated NarrowBand signal output directly to the LH v2.3?
In theory this should all work fine, however I wonder if our LH V2.3 uP is sampling the 02 sensor input fast enough so to be able to cope correctly with this kind of (what I hope would be an improved) setup.
Looking forward to receiving feedback, as real practical facts and experience always beat any good theory...
08-12-2012, 01:01 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
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I have used several Techedge WBO2 controllers with most all of the 928 LH and EZKs. As you mention the LSU4.9 sensor, I have also dealt with getting the firmware and calibration tables correct for the 4.9 sensor and the Techedge controllers.
When using the 4.9 sensor, you'll need to verify that the calibration tables have been properly uploaded before you'll get data / control results that make sense. You get get the firmware and calibration tables from Techedge's website. You will need their utility program to upload. This may seem daunting, but their instructions are good.
If you car is currently running well at warmed up idle, the simplest check for the calibration is to see that the car runs essentially the same when you have the Techedge system installed vs. using the narrow band sensor. With the 4.9 sensor, if the AFR is being reported overly lean, then it's likely you have the legacy LSU4.2 calibration tables still in use within the WBO2 controller.
Final "gotcha" is to make sure you do not have a ground loops between the WBO2 output and the Narrow Band (NBSim) output. For most of the Techedge controllers, I strap the grounds to the chassis ground and things work as they should. Depending on the model, there may be an internal jumper for output ground, strapped or isolated.
As a general comment, I really like my Techedge WBO2 controllers. They output fast, low noise data and have work well for me for the past 4+ years. The Techedge setups may be more "raw" than some of the other systems, but if you simply want good AFR data, the simplicity may be a benefit.
If you have not already downloaded it, try the "WinLog" logging software. "WinLog" off the Techedge gains you lots of detailed data from the WBO2. I use a MSD inductive pickup into the Techedge to correlate the WBO2 data to RPM.
Enjoy.
When using the 4.9 sensor, you'll need to verify that the calibration tables have been properly uploaded before you'll get data / control results that make sense. You get get the firmware and calibration tables from Techedge's website. You will need their utility program to upload. This may seem daunting, but their instructions are good.
If you car is currently running well at warmed up idle, the simplest check for the calibration is to see that the car runs essentially the same when you have the Techedge system installed vs. using the narrow band sensor. With the 4.9 sensor, if the AFR is being reported overly lean, then it's likely you have the legacy LSU4.2 calibration tables still in use within the WBO2 controller.
Final "gotcha" is to make sure you do not have a ground loops between the WBO2 output and the Narrow Band (NBSim) output. For most of the Techedge controllers, I strap the grounds to the chassis ground and things work as they should. Depending on the model, there may be an internal jumper for output ground, strapped or isolated.
As a general comment, I really like my Techedge WBO2 controllers. They output fast, low noise data and have work well for me for the past 4+ years. The Techedge setups may be more "raw" than some of the other systems, but if you simply want good AFR data, the simplicity may be a benefit.
If you have not already downloaded it, try the "WinLog" logging software. "WinLog" off the Techedge gains you lots of detailed data from the WBO2. I use a MSD inductive pickup into the Techedge to correlate the WBO2 data to RPM.
Enjoy.
08-12-2012, 01:09 PM
#4
Race Car
Even though I am currently running with a stock nbO2 in parallel to my wbO2, my TechEdge 2J1 with LSU 4.2 sensor works just fine when feeding the NBSim signal to LH 2.3. I ran this way for over a year and didn't notice any difference between that and a stock nbO2. In fact, the car passed emissions like that without problems. What I really like is my green LA1 gauge, it looks great and I can always see what the AFR is any time.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
08-12-2012, 01:45 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have used several Techedge WBO2 controllers with most all of the 928 LH and EZKs. As you mention the LSU4.9 sensor, I have also dealt with getting the firmware and calibration tables correct for the 4.9 sensor and the Techedge controllers.
When using the 4.9 sensor, you'll need to verify that the calibration tables have been properly uploaded before you'll get data / control results that make sense. You get get the firmware and calibration tables from Techedge's website. You will need their utility program to upload. This may seem daunting, but their instructions are good.
If you car is currently running well at warmed up idle, the simplest check for the calibration is to see that the car runs essentially the same when you have the Techedge system installed vs. using the narrow band sensor. With the 4.9 sensor, if the AFR is being reported overly lean, then it's likely you have the legacy LSU4.2 calibration tables still in use within the WBO2 controller.
Final "gotcha" is to make sure you do not have a ground loops between the WBO2 output and the Narrow Band (NBSim) output. For most of the Techedge controllers, I strap the grounds to the chassis ground and things work as they should. Depending on the model, there may be an internal jumper for output ground, strapped or isolated.
As a general comment, I really like my Techedge WBO2 controllers. They output fast, low noise data and have work well for me for the past 4+ years. The Techedge setups may be more "raw" than some of the other systems, but if you simply want good AFR data, the simplicity may be a benefit.
If you have not already downloaded it, try the "WinLog" logging software. "WinLog" off the Techedge gains you lots of detailed data from the WBO2. I use a MSD inductive pickup into the Techedge to correlate the WBO2 data to RPM.
Enjoy.
When using the 4.9 sensor, you'll need to verify that the calibration tables have been properly uploaded before you'll get data / control results that make sense. You get get the firmware and calibration tables from Techedge's website. You will need their utility program to upload. This may seem daunting, but their instructions are good.
If you car is currently running well at warmed up idle, the simplest check for the calibration is to see that the car runs essentially the same when you have the Techedge system installed vs. using the narrow band sensor. With the 4.9 sensor, if the AFR is being reported overly lean, then it's likely you have the legacy LSU4.2 calibration tables still in use within the WBO2 controller.
Final "gotcha" is to make sure you do not have a ground loops between the WBO2 output and the Narrow Band (NBSim) output. For most of the Techedge controllers, I strap the grounds to the chassis ground and things work as they should. Depending on the model, there may be an internal jumper for output ground, strapped or isolated.
As a general comment, I really like my Techedge WBO2 controllers. They output fast, low noise data and have work well for me for the past 4+ years. The Techedge setups may be more "raw" than some of the other systems, but if you simply want good AFR data, the simplicity may be a benefit.
If you have not already downloaded it, try the "WinLog" logging software. "WinLog" off the Techedge gains you lots of detailed data from the WBO2. I use a MSD inductive pickup into the Techedge to correlate the WBO2 data to RPM.
Enjoy.
My idle is perfect, however having just dyno'ed my car for the 1st time so to obtain a baseline to work from (as per my thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ns-thread.html ) we measured that it is running rich on the higher RPM ranges. Most likely this is simply due to WOT position currently not being electronically registered, due to the throttle quadrant cables needing to be setup correctly (the throttle switch is working fine for both the idle and full position when I manually open up the throttle @ the throttle quadrant, just not when I put the go-pedal to the floor). As I already had ordered the TechEdge gear in the meantime, I will be measuring my real-time AFM very soon.
, which combined with other information gave me the full confidence to order their solution (via their Dutch distributor, which avoid all the hassle with additional taxes). I really like TechEdge no-nonsense engineering based web-site: all facts and no "lipstick yada yada" (for which I have no time)...Even though I am currently running with a stock nbO2 in parallel to my wbO2, my TechEdge 2J1 with LSU 4.2 sensor works just fine when feeding the NBSim signal to LH 2.3. I ran this way for over a year and didn't notice any difference between that and a stock nbO2. In fact, the car passed emissions like that without problems. What I really like is my green LA1 gauge, it looks great and I can always see what the AFR is any time.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ftGood info to know, confirming the theory.
Are you still running like that, or if not then any particular reason why reverting to the stock NBo2 feeding the LH v2.3?I have ordered their LX1 display given the place I want to put it, although I was very tempted to order the LA1 gauge.
08-12-2012, 02:29 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Hi Arnoud
The LH always tend to run too rich at the WOT top end, unless you MAF is very badly aged. You can pick up a little power by getting the A/F at WOT around 13.0- 13.5.
Conversely, in the mid range at high loads when the LH goes open loop, the LH runs somewhat weak. So power to be had there. The power loss due to running rich is les than rtunning too weak.
Sorry about the poor image quality.
The LH always tend to run too rich at the WOT top end, unless you MAF is very badly aged. You can pick up a little power by getting the A/F at WOT around 13.0- 13.5.
Conversely, in the mid range at high loads when the LH goes open loop, the LH runs somewhat weak. So power to be had there. The power loss due to running rich is les than rtunning too weak.
Sorry about the poor image quality.
08-12-2012, 03:05 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Arnoud
The LH always tend to run too rich at the WOT top end, unless you MAF is very badly aged. You can pick up a little power by getting the A/F at WOT around 13.0- 13.5.
Conversely, in the mid range at high loads when the LH goes open loop, the LH runs somewhat weak. So power to be had there. The power loss due to running rich is les than rtunning too weak.
Sorry about the poor image quality.
The LH always tend to run too rich at the WOT top end, unless you MAF is very badly aged. You can pick up a little power by getting the A/F at WOT around 13.0- 13.5.
Conversely, in the mid range at high loads when the LH goes open loop, the LH runs somewhat weak. So power to be had there. The power loss due to running rich is les than rtunning too weak.
Sorry about the poor image quality.
With a little power, are you meaning something in the 10-20 PS range (when having an otherwise 100% stock setup)?
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08-12-2012, 03:20 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
I remember Louie Ott picked up about 10HP with LH tuning and 15HP with EZK tuning on a stock S4.
I've snipped this para from my post to today's thread on tuning by the Dubai boys...
"If your Sharktuning on the street, then when tuning the EZK, don't stop the car while you process data and adjust the maps. In that time the engie will get very hot and you'll see many more knocks on the next run.
It's best to drive the car at moderate speed like 30mph while you adjust the map. Then do another WOT run.
You will find that you can add quite a bit of advance in the mid rpm range at throttle openings up to just below WOT. This makes the car much more driveable with increased torque. "
I've snipped this para from my post to today's thread on tuning by the Dubai boys...
"If your Sharktuning on the street, then when tuning the EZK, don't stop the car while you process data and adjust the maps. In that time the engie will get very hot and you'll see many more knocks on the next run.
It's best to drive the car at moderate speed like 30mph while you adjust the map. Then do another WOT run.
You will find that you can add quite a bit of advance in the mid rpm range at throttle openings up to just below WOT. This makes the car much more driveable with increased torque. "
08-12-2012, 06:20 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
I remember Louie Ott picked up about 10HP with LH tuning and 15HP with EZK tuning on a stock S4.
I've snipped this para from my post to today's thread on tuning by the Dubai boys...
"If your Sharktuning on the street, then when tuning the EZK, don't stop the car while you process data and adjust the maps. In that time the engie will get very hot and you'll see many more knocks on the next run.
It's best to drive the car at moderate speed like 30mph while you adjust the map. Then do another WOT run.
You will find that you can add quite a bit of advance in the mid rpm range at throttle openings up to just below WOT. This makes the car much more driveable with increased torque. "
I've snipped this para from my post to today's thread on tuning by the Dubai boys...
"If your Sharktuning on the street, then when tuning the EZK, don't stop the car while you process data and adjust the maps. In that time the engie will get very hot and you'll see many more knocks on the next run.
It's best to drive the car at moderate speed like 30mph while you adjust the map. Then do another WOT run.
You will find that you can add quite a bit of advance in the mid rpm range at throttle openings up to just below WOT. This makes the car much more driveable with increased torque. "
You have any screen shots or examples of HOW high you could go in there?
Im having zero luck with stale communications to the ST in a VMware fusion windows VM onmy new work laptop. Will soon have xp loaded In boot camp to avoid any issues there...or I would look myself.
08-13-2012, 05:56 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thank you for having provided also your positive confirmation on this subject.
Would you be willing to share any possible iniformation and/or pictures you might have made on the wiring harness you had to make for this (as I'm currently contemplating mine)?
I am thinking of taking the power supply to the TechEdge controller either from the existing o2 sensor plug or the T48 connector or from the wiring towards the fuel pump.