87 S4 with an odd issue
08-12-2012 | 11:03 PM
#76
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 28,591
Likes: 2,642
From: Philly PA
Just follow the instructions in post 73 before you do any more checking or driving.
you numbers also need to be rechecked,
if possible with a different measuring device.
Really lets take this one step at a time and your car will run for a very long time.
Always look on the bright side of life!
you numbers also need to be rechecked,
if possible with a different measuring device.
Really lets take this one step at a time and your car will run for a very long time.
Always look on the bright side of life!
08-13-2012 | 01:47 AM
#78
Under the Lift
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From: Buckeye, AZ
Item 623
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-...cator-623.html
And the magnetic base:
Item 5645
http://www.harborfreight.com/multipo...ment-5645.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-...cator-623.html
And the magnetic base:
Item 5645
http://www.harborfreight.com/multipo...ment-5645.html
08-13-2012 | 04:01 PM
#80
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,582
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From: Boulder Creek, CA
Hey Guys,
As promised, I have done the flex plate check and here are the stats:
When cold:
measurement from pinch bolt to end of the grooves on the TT before pinch bolt tension release: 16.90 mm
after tenison release 12.89mm
measurement of crankshaft endplay at flywheel when cold with long screwdriver pushing the flywheel aft: 0.04mm total (from a zero position before releasing flexplate tension)
What I found: The pinch bolt was not torqued to spec. Torqued it to 66ftlbs. I believe the darned "flexplate creep" caused the hard start issue when warm.
After I torqued the pinch bolt, I ran the engine until it warmed up and checked it again. We are good to go.
The hard start issue is completely gone. The engine idles great cold and warm. The engine starts at all temps now.
The only issue I have now is that when coming to a stop sometimes, she will occassionally stall (only happened twice while on an hour long "victory" drive).
I may have a fuel delivery issue. Could be my fuel pump starting to act up (original to car)...
Not sure, will be checking pressure at the rail tomorrow...
What do you guys think?
As promised, I have done the flex plate check and here are the stats:
When cold:
measurement from pinch bolt to end of the grooves on the TT before pinch bolt tension release: 16.90 mm
after tenison release 12.89mm
measurement of crankshaft endplay at flywheel when cold with long screwdriver pushing the flywheel aft: 0.04mm total (from a zero position before releasing flexplate tension)
What I found: The pinch bolt was not torqued to spec. Torqued it to 66ftlbs. I believe the darned "flexplate creep" caused the hard start issue when warm.
After I torqued the pinch bolt, I ran the engine until it warmed up and checked it again. We are good to go.
The hard start issue is completely gone. The engine idles great cold and warm. The engine starts at all temps now.
The only issue I have now is that when coming to a stop sometimes, she will occassionally stall (only happened twice while on an hour long "victory" drive).
I may have a fuel delivery issue. Could be my fuel pump starting to act up (original to car)...
Not sure, will be checking pressure at the rail tomorrow...
What do you guys think?
08-14-2012 | 03:31 PM
#83
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 54
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From: Traphill, NC
Merlin,
I figured out what I did wrong on my flywheel check. I measured it backwards pushing the flywheel aft instead of forward. That's why my numbers don't make sense.
I found this link on crank end play. Ironically, I have the exact same tool used in this link:
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...0Procedure.htm
After reading it a few times, I realize that I did it completely wrong. I will try to get under there and perform the "do over" when I get the HF tool (just ordered yesterday) and compare my results with the digital caliper results.
Will post them both for you to look at...
Will also check my oil for glitter and report my findings...
I figured out what I did wrong on my flywheel check. I measured it backwards pushing the flywheel aft instead of forward. That's why my numbers don't make sense.
I found this link on crank end play. Ironically, I have the exact same tool used in this link:
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...0Procedure.htm
After reading it a few times, I realize that I did it completely wrong. I will try to get under there and perform the "do over" when I get the HF tool (just ordered yesterday) and compare my results with the digital caliper results.
Will post them both for you to look at...
Will also check my oil for glitter and report my findings...
08-14-2012 | 04:12 PM
#84
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,582
Likes: 1,034
From: Boulder Creek, CA
Merlin,
I figured out what I did wrong on my flywheel check. I measured it backwards pushing the flywheel aft instead of forward. That's why my numbers don't make sense.
I found this link on crank end play. Ironically, I have the exact same tool used in this link:
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...0Procedure.htm
After reading it a few times, I realize that I did it completely wrong. I will try to get under there and perform the "do over" when I get the HF tool (just ordered yesterday) and compare my results with the digital caliper results.
Will post them both for you to look at...
Will also check my oil for glitter and report my findings...
I figured out what I did wrong on my flywheel check. I measured it backwards pushing the flywheel aft instead of forward. That's why my numbers don't make sense.
I found this link on crank end play. Ironically, I have the exact same tool used in this link:
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...0Procedure.htm
After reading it a few times, I realize that I did it completely wrong. I will try to get under there and perform the "do over" when I get the HF tool (just ordered yesterday) and compare my results with the digital caliper results.
Will post them both for you to look at...
Will also check my oil for glitter and report my findings...
Send in a sample for proper testing. See what metals are in there as a chemical test, not just visual.
The filter..is a good vis test, but still, Blackstone..git er done.
08-14-2012 | 04:17 PM
#85
Official Bay Area Patriot
Fuse 24 Assassin
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I agree. If just releasing that pinch collar bolt changed things, this is not a good sign. If worse comes to worse, short blocks are about $2500 through 928 International. I'd start setting some cash aside just in case, just as I have in the even the **** hits the fan. I still hope I never have to use that money.
The good news is you can reuse everything on your motor, but the lower end.
By the way, I have one more test for you. When the car is warm at a light, turn your A/C button on. Even if you don't have your air conditioning charged, the idle control valve will adjust and increase the idle. The fans will also come in the front. If the car stalls out seconds after this, the chance of thrust bearing failure has increased since the car is symptomatic to any variation in idle. If the idle jumps up slightly, but the car seems fine, you're in good shape.
The good news is you can reuse everything on your motor, but the lower end.
By the way, I have one more test for you. When the car is warm at a light, turn your A/C button on. Even if you don't have your air conditioning charged, the idle control valve will adjust and increase the idle. The fans will also come in the front. If the car stalls out seconds after this, the chance of thrust bearing failure has increased since the car is symptomatic to any variation in idle. If the idle jumps up slightly, but the car seems fine, you're in good shape.
08-15-2012 | 01:15 AM
#86
Under the Lift
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From: Buckeye, AZ
I found this link on crank end play. Ironically, I have the exact same tool used in this link:
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...0Procedure.htm
After reading it a few times, I realize that I did it completely wrong. I will try to get under there and perform the "do over" when I get the HF tool (just ordered yesterday) and compare my results with the digital caliper results.
Will post them both for you to look at...
Will also check my oil for glitter and report my findings...
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...0Procedure.htm
After reading it a few times, I realize that I did it completely wrong. I will try to get under there and perform the "do over" when I get the HF tool (just ordered yesterday) and compare my results with the digital caliper results.
Will post them both for you to look at...
Will also check my oil for glitter and report my findings...
08-15-2012 | 01:31 AM
#87
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,155
Likes: 370
From: Johnson City, TN
Pictures in this document are very helpful, too:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...pictorial.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...pictorial.html
08-15-2012 | 09:45 AM
#88
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,675
Likes: 4
From: TEXAS
That was my first thought from the begining... I hope the oil test results come back good. Open your filter up and look at the screen. If your oil drain plug has a magnet, there should be metal on it if something went wrong. Also, every time that bolt comes off a new one needs to be installed.
08-18-2012 | 08:45 PM
#89
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 54
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From: Traphill, NC
Okay Everyone,
I followed post 73 to the letter nd remeasured my endplay. I was fortunate enough to use a friends lift at his shop to do all the work and what a difference it makes to be able to move around underneath my ride withot having to shimmy around.
You were right MrMerlin... the rear pinch bolt was also loose. Thank you for your advice big brother.
My endplay measurement was .22mm (thank you Lord!!) I did a happy dance after I measured it twice.
I checked the oil and found no "glitter". Nevertheless, I am going to do a few 500 mile oil changes, just to be completely sure. First oil change is tomorrow. I will check my plug magnet extensively for any metal shavings with a loop.
As for the AC, I found a loose connection at the dryer, and now the compressor engages, although the air inthe cabin is still warm. Reading Wally's HVAC system page and will check the sensor string tomorrow to isolate a little further.
As for the idle bounce when warm, it is still there (intermittent). When I turn the AC on, it goes away. When I shut the AC off, it will idle bounce. If I put it in gear when she's warm, she will sometimes quit. She restarts, but sometimes she will act like she is not getting enough fuel to turn over. I will take a couple of cranks from the switch to fire her up....What do you guys think it could be?
I followed post 73 to the letter nd remeasured my endplay. I was fortunate enough to use a friends lift at his shop to do all the work and what a difference it makes to be able to move around underneath my ride withot having to shimmy around.
You were right MrMerlin... the rear pinch bolt was also loose. Thank you for your advice big brother.
My endplay measurement was .22mm (thank you Lord!!) I did a happy dance after I measured it twice.
I checked the oil and found no "glitter". Nevertheless, I am going to do a few 500 mile oil changes, just to be completely sure. First oil change is tomorrow. I will check my plug magnet extensively for any metal shavings with a loop.
As for the AC, I found a loose connection at the dryer, and now the compressor engages, although the air inthe cabin is still warm. Reading Wally's HVAC system page and will check the sensor string tomorrow to isolate a little further.
As for the idle bounce when warm, it is still there (intermittent). When I turn the AC on, it goes away. When I shut the AC off, it will idle bounce. If I put it in gear when she's warm, she will sometimes quit. She restarts, but sometimes she will act like she is not getting enough fuel to turn over. I will take a couple of cranks from the switch to fire her up....What do you guys think it could be?