spazzmo

Good day to both of you.

Vilhuer

Simple fact is that if $100k sounds like a lot anybody with enough cash could try to find GTS with 20k miles for lets say $50k and resell it quickly for $75k. Instant $25k profit but first problem is to find extra $50k and second is to find 20k driven GTS for sale at $50k. Second problem is much harder. Trying to find ROW car with such miles is even harder still as all seem to have been driven 100k or more. Restoring 100k driven car to same overall condition as 20k car doesn't help much. First of all doing it right cost much more than $25k and its still only $40-50k car as it has 80k too many miles regardless of condition it is in.

antlee928

Oh contraire Spazzmo. We would be very interested to see your "...cheap old Porsche..." You do own one don't you???? Or do you have too much time on your hands are simply daydreaming? Come on, follow the normal etiquette and post a pic of your ol' 928......pleeeeease.

Cheers

Dave928S

I'd like to see the pics of your 'cheap old porsche' .... I've got the the few minutes it takes, and in fact every one here likes to see pics of a new members car.

Edit: I just read the rest of this thread which I skimmed past and see the direction it's heading ... ugly ... forget the pics I think I've heard and seen enough!! I hope MW gets a good price ... as he usually does.

Dave928S

Taking this thread back to topic.

I checked the VIN and it's listed as a 93, the registry lists it as a 94, and yet the registry at the bottom of the listing page shows the date of title issue as 7/22/1993.

I'm now officially confused. I recall Errka at some time mentioning this issue of manufacture date, and plate date, as sometimes being different. Can someone enlighten me as to why there are conflicting dates?

Jerry Feather

Dave, it is not very confusing at all. The production year usually starts around june of july of the year d before. So, a 928 built in July 93 is going to be known as a 94 model.

One odd thing about this , however, and having to do with the GTSs is that this tradition was even stretched substantially for the 93 model year, at least as to North Americal GTSs. They apparently entirely skipped the model year 92, but started production of the 93 models very early in 92. My example, the infamous GTS4, is licensed as a 93, but it was built in April of 92. It is in the catagory of cars known as "early 93s" and I think it would have been sold elsewhere in the world as a 92.

In short, the date the car was built, date of first sale, or date of first license or registration is not what determines the model year of the car.

Jerry Feather

JWise

To clarify, the 10th position of the VIN is the letter "R" - which denotes a 1994 model.

Additionally, here are the wheels that originally came on the GTS:

C2Turbo - aka Cup I - fitted to the 92, 93, and very early 94 models (first ~ 20 cars, which includes the subject car).



993 Cup - aka Cup II - fitted to the majority of 94 models and all 95's.

Hilton

Exactly - the "production year" is based on the factory's own calendar. Porsche still shuts down for a couple of weeks each year in August, during which maintenance, re-tooling etc. are performed.

Back in the 928 prodution days it was more like a whole month. The end of July marked the end of each production year, and the beginning of Sept. or so was the start of the next one.

As far as the using old-style wheels on the first 20 or so cars in 1994 - its not the first time that's happened

There's plenty of examples of the factory using up old-stock before changing to a newer part. e.g. mid-way through 86, US market finally used up all the S-style brakes and started fitting Brembo 4-pots. Mid-way through '84 model year, the supply of old Euro S pistons dried up and the factory started equipping S2's with the later high-compression 4.7 pistons, and so on.

Shark_Week

i can't believe i just read through this load of crap

928mac

^^ +1

renbry

Is it also not true that a MY93 may be actually sold and titled in '94; adding confusion as to when the manufacture date was v.s year sold ?

I'm sure I've heard stories about this happening plenty of times in Oz...

Jerry Feather

I am pretty sure that in most of the world a MY 93 will always be a MY 93 no matter when it was made or when it was first sold. Neither the date of mfg nor the date of first sale determine the MY. The model year is determined by the VIN assigned to it by the factory.

How they might deal with this down under may be completely different for all I know.

A lot of wierd things can happen with the title or registration to cars, I suppose, the same as with airplanes. I have a 1947 Navion that was manufactured by North American Aviation and sold to the military. When it was sold out of the military someone wrote on the paperwork that it was a Ryan Navion, so now it is registered as a Ryan not North American.

Jerry Feather

Dave928S

Jerry, Jarrod & Hilton .... thanks. I must pay more attention to the the VIN letter code instead of the VIN lookup, and use that as the final arbiter and double check. I inadvertently substituted a P in the VIN and would you believe it's also a manual, so I didn't pick up my error. Both (P & R) were built in 93 but one is a 93 and the other is a 94, and of course both are eleventh in the US P & R production sequence for that year.

What threw me on this one is the fact that it's titled 22nd July '93 (before the end of the presumably '93 production year in Germany), and so it must have been built quite some time before that. I was assuming that cars built prior to end of July in that year would still be 93, and those built after their break and till the end of the year (Sept to Dec) would be 94. That's clearly not the case with this one if the title date is accurate. It would be interesting to see the build label on the car.

It's amazing how many low mileage pristine cars MW comes up with ... makes you wonder what else is out there.

Vilhuer

This is one of 19 US/Canada cars which were made between 01/93 and 08/93 ie during normal '93 MY production with VIN's WP0AA292_RS820061 - 820079. Porsche put '94 MY VIN into them to keep them looking fresh in dealer lot until 08/94 when '94 MY production ended. There is separate option code M718 for this abnormal setup. This allowed dealers to sell them as "new" cars much longer than if they were given normal '93 MY VIN.

At the time 928's were selling very slowly in US market so it made sense to use this trick. At same time factory did last '93 MY ROW cars. Both of these use same '93 MY colors, options and parts simply because '94 MY stuff wasn't available yet. Thus these 19 cars could not have Cup II wheels etc as parts didn't even exist at the time when they were made. They are '93 MY in every way except VIN.

In ROW markets there were no need to use similar tricks as buyers don't generally have a glue what MY their cars VIN says it is. They only care for first registration date. Until they realise their supposedly new car has been in dealer lot for years. Most ROW 928 buyers didn't have idea how old their car was when they bought it. It was new and they were happy. Now its little different as its mandatory to have manufacturing date visible in new cars.

Green Goblin

Hey Spazz, go wipe your vajayjay, and sorry that you put two 928's thru hell having to cart your *** around.

Deeez Nuuuts