Tampa 928s

I want to get this done this AM and per my post I did not remove any metal seal as shown on picture 1.

The only option for placement is the snout but looking at the shaft radius; see gap in picture3 it seems that this seal would not provide any benefit, so I ask again is this a generic part that may not be used on my compressor?

Tampa 928s

I could not find a place for the metal seal but some ford diagrams show it inside the head with the seal pressing on it.
I pressure tested it and the new seal is leaking from around the shaft, the seal itself looks different from the original.

griffiths

The 'metal' seal with the o-ring on the outside is called a race.
The black carbon piece on the nose seal assembly rides against the shiny surface of the race.
Try not to touch or scratch either the carbon piece or the shiny side of the race, and if dirt or debris has contaminated either surface carefully wipe it clean.

The nose seal assembly (the o-ring, spring, and carbon piece) is in a metal holder. The metal holder
will have hole with a flat on each side [0]. This flat should mate with the flat on the compressor shaft.

Depending upon the design of the nose, the nose seal will be either:
A) placed on the compressor shaft first, with the carbon facing outward and the race placed in the nose with the shiny side facing the carbon and held with the retaining ring, or
B) the nose seal is placed inside the nose with the carbon facing outward and the race placed on top of it with shiny side facing the carbon, and held with the retaining ring.

The new metal race's o-ring should be lubricated with compressor oil before you insert it.

If your compressor's oil had dye tracer mixed with it (green or orange) you should thoroughly clean it from all surfaces so that if you decide to use a black light to look for leaks later you won't be looking at residual dye.

You should be replacing the metal sealing rings (dark gray) that contact the reed plates and the front and rear compressor ends and all 3 case seal o-rings (be aware of the different sizes) and be cautious when separating the case halves (not ding the thin wall sections where the case o-rings seat, as well as not to allow the piston's, half bearings, bearings and their races to fall out or get mixed up; the front and rear reed plates may be different).

Looks like your puppy was 'resealed' before because its using metal sealing rings (dark gray) rather than the factory paper gaskets. The metal sealing rings are a 'one time use' part, they crush-seal after you tighten the allen case bolts.

The washer's on the shaft you referred to as being bent or distorted should set on top of the shaft
on the shaft seat just below the shaft thread. The washers are used to set the space between the pulley and outer hub's air gap. You want typically between .015"-.030" air gap measured 120 degrees apart, use .014" and .031" nominal feeler gauges as a "no-go" to check the air gap. Just get it as close as you can to .015-.030. Too little and the hub will rub on the pulley when the clutch is not engaged (not good, heats things up), too much and the coil may not have enough power to pull in the hub flush with the pulley (not good, causes slippage and heat as well).

Suggestion: next time take pic's of each step you did to take things apart, makes life easier to putting them back together.

Tampa 928s

This is the metal ring I am talking about it was missing from my compressor.
I assume I need to torque down the clutch nut before I test for any leaks, correct?

Tampa 928s

MR. G

Since you know what to look for and obviously I do not guide me through this!

Remember the race you mentioned was never installed in the compressor I am working on so I have a few pictures that clarifies my lack of expertise.
The green dye is new along with 6-oz of 100 pag oil.

PICTURE #1 The race is shown with flat side.
PICTURE #2 Raised lip about 1/3 on THE other side.

Picture #4
I can assume it should be placed in the inside of the front assembly as shown, but it will present a lot of pressure if I bolt it down like this. Since the compressor did not have a race do I have the wrong kit?

There are no labels on the compressor I assumed it is a Denso but doing research the model I came up with is a 10P.

So much confusion for such a simple repair!!

JHowell37

That compressor is a 6E171. Keep us updated on your progress/success/failure. I tried to do a reseal on one a few years ago. The new parts they sent me looked like your new parts. They weren't the same as the old ones. I never got it to seal and eventually gave up on it.

Tampa 928s

Spoke to Zeus I did not remove the old race thought it was part of the housing, it showed scarring maybe due to the seal moving on the shaft.
Back to the garage!

griffiths

Assuming your supplier sent you the correct seal kit, the stack arrangement should be like so:


Slips my mind today, working on my own beast, however possibly on the
6E171 you either:

.... set the nose seal assembly on the shaft, insert the race and its o-ring on inside the aluminum nose (the race is held in the nose with the retaining clip) with the shiny side of the race facing the carbon and bring the aluminum nose down over the shaft and secure with the allen head bolts, or ??,

As far as pressure testing it you just need to have the 5 allen head bolts torqued, the nut on the shaft is to hold down the front hub. The nose seal assembly with its o-ring seals the shaft side while the o-ring around the race seals the aluminum nose side.

Do not take apart the nose seal assembly.

I'd like to help you more today but i gotta work on my own beast. Contact me Monday if you are stuck and I'll rip apart a 6E171 I have here for you.

Tampa 928s

I give up replaced everything with a new kit and front seal is still leaking!

I don't known anybody to fix these things any recommendations?

I sent one for a friend "ending up buying a new one" to an outfit in Texas and they screwed it up so he is off of the list.

This compressor is been rebuilt not long ago so just the front seal needs to be fixed! HELP!

Tampa 928s

I keep hearing the shiny side goes on the seal; with the new kit the race was not shiny on either side and contained a ridge that looks like it goes in the nose to position it. I turned it around and still could hear the nitrogen hissing out. It was rough looking so I thought this might be a cheap Chinese after market kit and I guess I am right.

Well with nothing left to loose I decided to take the old race turn it around to the shiny side.The other side was scored due to the seal moving on the shaft I believe.

It is now holding pressure and vacuum!

Tampa 928s

One last ?
Do I install the drift pin first then mount the clutch?

Do I need to go get a installer to press the clutch back on? I rented a puller which worked great so I am assuming I will need one to reinstall.

If I install it using the same type of washers 3 total and check the gap will I be able to get the drift pin in from the top?

griffiths

1) assemble washers, hub, lightly tap down hub, usually they seat easily if shaft not buggered otherwise put nut on and airgun nut, check gap, if gap is good disassemble and put on key and reassemble, otherwise add or remove shim washers.

dprantl

It has been so long since I rebuilt the 6E171 in my former '86 that I can't help much. I do remember there being a shiny side to the piece with the o-ring around the outside. In fact it was shipped in a package with wax paper on that side to protect its surface. I referred to the write-up on Pelican about rebuilding a 10P15C 911 compressor, the 6E171 was very similar. The rebuild did hold for several years with R134a in the system until I lost track of the car after it was sold.

I do much prefer to work on the older carbon seal compressor types than the newer lip seal ones like the 10PA20C on later 928's. You have to pray to the lip seal gods that it will not leak after rebuild, even with the right seal tool and method.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

Tampa 928s

It held pressure on the bench with nitrogen at 170 lbs for the night so I'll know once I run it for a while, no more cheap china crap rebuild kits. You can see the difference on the original race and the replacement race as far as smoothness goes.

P.s. Thanks Mr. G for your help now to find a local radiator guy to reseal my end cap!

Tampa 928s

Working on a 86.5 with a leak I need to ID the compressor type to get a "good" rebuild kit the center gasket is leaking.
The pipe shows a leak at the solder joint and needs to be replaced, I believe that the PO replaced the hose with an aftermarket and added this extension to the R/D.