Anyone had leaking All Aluminium radiator issue?
03-01-2012 | 05:25 PM
#31
Former Vendor
Greg..you sell good stuff. I'll _never_ argue against that.
But Behr makes a billion radiators.
Radiators.
Porsche doesnt have a gold sealed unabtanium...radiator.
Same materials as everybody else's. A Radiator.
A kick *** hand built customer never fail cools like the sub arctic and supports 650Hp in the Sahara...ya..there's HUGE value in that. Undeniably.
But Behr..mass production, army ant productivity...radiators..plastic, some metal, some sealant..radiators.
Very basic design...radiators.
But Behr makes a billion radiators.
Radiators.
Porsche doesnt have a gold sealed unabtanium...radiator.
Same materials as everybody else's. A Radiator.
A kick *** hand built customer never fail cools like the sub arctic and supports 650Hp in the Sahara...ya..there's HUGE value in that. Undeniably.
But Behr..mass production, army ant productivity...radiators..plastic, some metal, some sealant..radiators.
Very basic design...radiators.
One point. When I worked on "selected customers" BMW's 15 years ago, we replaced lots of Behr radiators because they leaked...or they were plugged up and couldn't be fixed. These were fairly "new" BMW's, relative to how long a 928 radiator seems to last.
Perhaps they have different levels of quality, depending on what the original manufacturer wants?
Might be why there is such a significant price difference?
I don't know, but it amazes me when I see a 1982 928 with the original radiator still in place.....and that is common!
03-01-2012 | 08:44 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
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i did the same thing 2 years ago but my replacement has been no leak for over a year now (knock on wood) still good to know that if mine start leaking then i will buy one from Roger for $800.00 factory rad.
03-01-2012 | 09:59 PM
#33
Thread Starter
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Seeing as these premature failures are across the board with all manufactures it makes me wonder what Behr does differently. Is it possible that they plate or coat their cores before assembly? We have seen first hand here lots of poorly maintained original radiators that still do not leak after 20 plus years.
The advent of the all aluminum radiators came about when the only option was the factory radiator at nearly $2k. Now that Roger and I have Behr units for less than the aftermarket, that has changed everything.
The advent of the all aluminum radiators came about when the only option was the factory radiator at nearly $2k. Now that Roger and I have Behr units for less than the aftermarket, that has changed everything.
03-01-2012 | 10:08 PM
#34
The Parts Whisperer
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Fair enough but then why are you still offering these C&R units on your website? I can't be the first one to raise this issue with the C&R rads. The one I'm starring at, actually came through your company. You didn't make the radiator so I'm not pi$$ed at you but I am at the manufacturer.
03-01-2012 | 11:20 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Seeing as these premature failures are across the board with all manufactures it makes me wonder what Behr does differently. Is it possible that they plate or coat their cores before assembly? We have seen first hand here lots of poorly maintained original radiators that still do not leak after 20 plus years.
The advent of the all aluminum radiators came about when the only option was the factory radiator at nearly $2k. Now that Roger and I have Behr units for less than the aftermarket, that has changed everything.
The advent of the all aluminum radiators came about when the only option was the factory radiator at nearly $2k. Now that Roger and I have Behr units for less than the aftermarket, that has changed everything.
Yes..and if it wasnt clear, you were over & above dealing with me on my leak.
Just "then" and "now" issue...or I'dve stayed OEM.
03-01-2012 | 11:21 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Fair enough but then why are you still offering these C&R units on your website? I can't be the first one to raise this issue with the C&R rads. The one I'm starring at, actually came through your company. You didn't make the radiator so I'm not pi$$ed at you but I am at the manufacturer.
Some people like the bling...options R nice.
03-01-2012 | 11:22 PM
#37
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
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Mark and I have talked, at length, about radiators. He's very concerned about quality and longevity of the pieces he sells. It is interesting that virtually every aftermarket all aluminum radiator leaks at the cores. All I can tell everyone is that the people that I talked to about building radiators all had the same thing to say: "Long lasting and quality" is all about how much you are willing to pay for the core.
928 people can say whatever they want about the price of the Behr. They can bitch about the plastic side tanks and the "o-ring" seals. But what Mark is saying is true....how many other cars can you find that have 20 year old radiators still in them?
928 people can say whatever they want about the price of the Behr. They can bitch about the plastic side tanks and the "o-ring" seals. But what Mark is saying is true....how many other cars can you find that have 20 year old radiators still in them?
03-01-2012 | 11:23 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Mark and I have talked, at length, about radiators. He's very concerned about quality and longevity of the pieces he sells. It is interesting that virtually every aftermarket all aluminum radiator leaks at the cores. All I can tell everyone is that the people that I talked to about building radiators all had the same thing to say: "Long lasting and quality" is all about how much you are willing to pay for the core.
928 people can say whatever they want about the price of the Behr. They can bitch about the plastic side tanks and the "o-ring" seals. But what Mark is saying is true....how many other cars can you find that have 20 year old radiators still in them?
928 people can say whatever they want about the price of the Behr. They can bitch about the plastic side tanks and the "o-ring" seals. But what Mark is saying is true....how many other cars can you find that have 20 year old radiators still in them?
My 82-87 supras never needed another one..and bad rad's is..just not spoken about on the Supras list.
Not so much the cheap aftermarket ones..where the plastic is more heat brittle over time.
03-01-2012 | 11:38 PM
#39
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
03-02-2012 | 12:09 AM
#42
Pro
Good point Greg!
I will test mine with a millivolt meter, might need a ground strap on my all AL radiator. No issues after 2 years, but I will now rebuild my Behr and keep as a spare in case of leaks in the future. I have one from Carl (928MS). The welds are absolutely beautiful, no issues and now never overheats. It is a little thicker than the Behr, but no fitment issues.
The S4 fans do a great job of cooling, even on a hot day with A/C in traffic. We do have some traffic in the ATL.....
Dave
I will test mine with a millivolt meter, might need a ground strap on my all AL radiator. No issues after 2 years, but I will now rebuild my Behr and keep as a spare in case of leaks in the future. I have one from Carl (928MS). The welds are absolutely beautiful, no issues and now never overheats. It is a little thicker than the Behr, but no fitment issues.
The S4 fans do a great job of cooling, even on a hot day with A/C in traffic. We do have some traffic in the ATL.....
Dave
03-02-2012 | 01:56 PM
#43
Former Vendor
So for those of us who live in climes where it is above 100f/38c for for four straight months with periods well above 110f/43c what is the best radiator? Seems most believe the dual tank CR does the best. HAs that changed? Is the thinking now that the original Behr is the most efficient, long lasting? Greg, I know you heat proofed the Zycalmrot car as best as can be, runs cool even on the hot days, I'm just asking on behalf of others that are wondering what to do.
Make sure the radiator is grounded, so it doesn't "become" a battery.
Hope for the best.
#2. Spend 2K to buy a super custom radiator with high end oil coolers and a "non-Chinese" core.
Repeat all the steps in #1.
03-02-2012 | 02:09 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Interesting. I never thought of a mV check on the coolant. As far as 20 year old radiators, Nissan rads hold up pretty well, at least on the 80s era Zcars. I've replaced a couple out of precaution but not had any leak.
I am running the 928MS radiator and have not had any issues, but it has only been less than 6 months. I'll keep an eye on it. I did get a PM from one of Carl's early customer's that developed a leak at the lower seam, but Carl was quick to replace it and I don't believe he has had another issue.
I was also frustrated that Behr units were so high, when Behr units for BMWs are under $300 - that was my main issue in getting the AL unit. I had a hard time wanting to let Behr earn my business. However, if the AL unit starts leaking I may go back to OEM.
I'm wondering if the AL rad issue is like the 996 IMS bearing. It doens't take a huge number of failures to generate some buzz that these are leaking left and right.
It would be worth setting up a poll to see how many of these have leaked.
I am running the 928MS radiator and have not had any issues, but it has only been less than 6 months. I'll keep an eye on it. I did get a PM from one of Carl's early customer's that developed a leak at the lower seam, but Carl was quick to replace it and I don't believe he has had another issue.
I was also frustrated that Behr units were so high, when Behr units for BMWs are under $300 - that was my main issue in getting the AL unit. I had a hard time wanting to let Behr earn my business. However, if the AL unit starts leaking I may go back to OEM.
I'm wondering if the AL rad issue is like the 996 IMS bearing. It doens't take a huge number of failures to generate some buzz that these are leaking left and right.
It would be worth setting up a poll to see how many of these have leaked.
03-02-2012 | 02:27 PM
#45
Electron Wrangler
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The C&R seems to cool a little better but even in Phoenix the Behr was OK.
My stock Behr leaked and my C&R leaked. There were differences - the Behr was about 13 years old but was not repairable. The C&R leaked in about a year (not good).
But the C&R was repairable - cut the side tanks off re-weld the core connections and epoxy them from the inside - then reweld the side tanks back on - lots of work - hasn't leaked since.
Alan.
My stock Behr leaked and my C&R leaked. There were differences - the Behr was about 13 years old but was not repairable. The C&R leaked in about a year (not good).
But the C&R was repairable - cut the side tanks off re-weld the core connections and epoxy them from the inside - then reweld the side tanks back on - lots of work - hasn't leaked since.
Alan.