Welded Intermediate Plate - Awesome
02-20-2012, 11:32 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Definitely not a mod for work that needs to be warrantied. 
I think there are alot of 928 owners that do their own work, that may find this a useful fix.
The cost of a new I/P really is cost prohibitive for many of the older cars, their value just doesn't justify the expense if a cheap fix like this is available.
If someone is suffering from grinding gears in an older 5 speed, this is a viable alternative to at least trouble shooting the problem. Before spending big $$ on a tranny rebuild (although they all could probably use them by now), tack down the I/P and see if it cures the problem. At least you'll know if your mega dollar tranny rebuild is going to solve the symptoms you're experiencing.
I was suprised that my set up worked at all. I set mine at the factory spec, which I would think presumes new discs. My discs are far from new, and yet the factory spec worked perfectly on these used discs. That would indicate to me that tacking the I/P would have the same result on other clutch packs with worn, not new, discs. If true, there are alot of DD owners that may have a relatively cheap alternative (assuming they are turning their own wrenches) to fixing this problem.
I didn't do Mark Robinson's check where I actuated the clutch remotely and moved the adjusters until I had equal space around each disc. (then marked and tacked them). I just set to factory spec and tacked them. I wonder if maybe Porsche over designed this by making the I/P adjustable. The true test will be when one of us (Kibort are you listening?) with a fixed in place I/P starts to experience clutch problems due to the I/P not adjusting. I get the feeling it may be a while. I haven't see a lot of 928 clutch discs, but the ones I have seen come out of cars (both single or double) have always surprised me by how little visual wear they have. I wonder if maybe the 928 is easy enough on the discs that maybe the adjustment issue may not be a (major) issue.
Anyway, just wanted to share my experience with this fix out there. I think its a good one for the owner who does his own wrenching. On my $500 OB track car, it was a no-brainer.
I think there are alot of 928 owners that do their own work, that may find this a useful fix.
The cost of a new I/P really is cost prohibitive for many of the older cars, their value just doesn't justify the expense if a cheap fix like this is available.
If someone is suffering from grinding gears in an older 5 speed, this is a viable alternative to at least trouble shooting the problem. Before spending big $$ on a tranny rebuild (although they all could probably use them by now), tack down the I/P and see if it cures the problem. At least you'll know if your mega dollar tranny rebuild is going to solve the symptoms you're experiencing.
I was suprised that my set up worked at all. I set mine at the factory spec, which I would think presumes new discs. My discs are far from new, and yet the factory spec worked perfectly on these used discs. That would indicate to me that tacking the I/P would have the same result on other clutch packs with worn, not new, discs. If true, there are alot of DD owners that may have a relatively cheap alternative (assuming they are turning their own wrenches) to fixing this problem.
I didn't do Mark Robinson's check where I actuated the clutch remotely and moved the adjusters until I had equal space around each disc. (then marked and tacked them). I just set to factory spec and tacked them. I wonder if maybe Porsche over designed this by making the I/P adjustable. The true test will be when one of us (Kibort are you listening?) with a fixed in place I/P starts to experience clutch problems due to the I/P not adjusting. I get the feeling it may be a while. I haven't see a lot of 928 clutch discs, but the ones I have seen come out of cars (both single or double) have always surprised me by how little visual wear they have. I wonder if maybe the 928 is easy enough on the discs that maybe the adjustment issue may not be a (major) issue.
Anyway, just wanted to share my experience with this fix out there. I think its a good one for the owner who does his own wrenching. On my $500 OB track car, it was a no-brainer.
Last edited by atb; 02-21-2012 at 12:05 AM.
02-21-2012, 02:03 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
02-21-2012, 03:03 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Found that post by Errka ..... https://rennlist.com/forums/3259774-post256.html
Nice neat job of holding the adjusters when they get worn, and he re-posted that this setup was still working nicely after a year.
It uses wave washers as the spring washers to restore frictional resistance to sliding. Seems to me that this is a good way to retain the original adjustability to the IP and restore the resistance to going out of adjustment.
Sections of pics in the post ...
Nice neat job of holding the adjusters when they get worn, and he re-posted that this setup was still working nicely after a year.
It uses wave washers as the spring washers to restore frictional resistance to sliding. Seems to me that this is a good way to retain the original adjustability to the IP and restore the resistance to going out of adjustment.
Sections of pics in the post ...
02-21-2012, 03:15 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
And here are the details of how he put it together to replicate new operation ..... https://rennlist.com/forums/7747524-post278.html
02-21-2012, 03:27 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
What I like about it is that it gives you the opportunity to revisit the adjustment later if you need to. This restores original sliding resistance, but also allows you to tighten that up if necessary later as well. Seems a bit drastic to throw out a serviceable plate just because the adjusters are sloppy and don't hold anymore (especially considering the price).
The weakness in the IP design seems to be that the adjusters go out of whack when they get a bit of wear .... I think the rivets were a fail.
The weakness in the IP design seems to be that the adjusters go out of whack when they get a bit of wear .... I think the rivets were a fail.
Last edited by Dave928S; 02-21-2012 at 03:47 AM.
02-21-2012, 03:52 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I would be interested in knowing how today's production multiplate clutches deal with the situation. Probably have real time actuators to keep the gap in spec to ensure the clutch discs spin freely when the pedal is depressed. The rivet in place until stress, rust, time, or whatever causes it fail - system in our 928's is definitely old school technology.
We need PorKen to find some production Citroen or Puegot part that will bolt in with an adapter and give us active - on the fly IP adjustments in real time.
We need PorKen to find some production Citroen or Puegot part that will bolt in with an adapter and give us active - on the fly IP adjustments in real time.
02-21-2012, 01:01 PM
#26
Nordschleife Master
The flat spring has no effect on forward travel Tom.
If one removed the H adjusters and removed 2 tabs off it and then welded it on the problem would disappear.
If one removed the H adjusters and removed 2 tabs off it and then welded it on the problem would disappear.
02-21-2012, 01:04 PM
#27
Race Car
The whole clutch lever and slave cylinder arrangement on the 928 is old school technology. Mike Simard has already upgraded to a concentric style hydraulic slave cylinder with a tilton multiplate clutch and custom flywheel. The only potential issue with that is how streetable it is. Some say it is fine while others do not.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
02-21-2012, 01:18 PM
#28
02-21-2012, 01:29 PM
#29
The problem I hear about these is that they are either on.....or off.... no modulation. If you've ever seen Mark A move his track around the parking area or 928 Intl...you'll know what I mean..
The whole clutch lever and slave cylinder arrangement on the 928 is old school technology. Mike Simard has already upgraded to a concentric style hydraulic slave cylinder with a tilton multiplate clutch and custom flywheel. The only potential issue with that is how streetable it is. Some say it is fine while others do not.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
02-21-2012, 04:07 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master