An improptu comparison between a 928 and new 991
02-02-2012, 11:44 AM
#31
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02-02-2012, 11:06 PM
#32
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You need to study the history of the sports car to answer that question. The birth of the sports car belongs to the UK. Where light weight cars designed for blasting through the countryside were created.
They are not terribly comfortable, don't hold much for luggage, loud, all kinds of fluid smells, very sparse on creature comforts if any at all.
Basically something your typical mother-in-law would never ride in.
Sports cars are a dying breed and someday I fear, they will be gone forever.
The 911 stopped being a sports car with the 996 and many argue the 964 is the last of the "true" Sports Car 911.
The 991 is too heavy, too quiet, and way too comfortable. You know, everything the purists said about the 928 - and they were right.
The 928 has never and will never be a sports car. With the death of the 928 & 944 the Porsche model family got up and moved one chair over.
The 911 became the GT and the Boxster became the sports car of the family.
If you want to go old school, a Sports Car must be a roadster - not a convertible, there is a difference (Jeremy Clarkson said so.......)
"But, but....the 911 is so fast..." So is the Countach and the Testarossa, two cars never considered Sports Cars.
The GMC Syclone could spank most Sports Cars around any track & it's a truck. Absolute speed and lap times are not what makes a sports car.
Some of the greatest sports cars of all time are not really that fast:
Back in the 50's and 60's the Corvette was coined a sports car, by GM. To the rest of the world it was a bit bloated but it got a pass since it was American. Everything "we" did was a bit bigger and heavier anyway.
1967 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,360lbs
1697 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = 2,380lbs
My how times have changed......
2012 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,208lbs
2012 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = over 3,000lbs - the turbo will be over 3,200
Starting to make sense yet? "But....with modern safety and equipment......"
Meanwhile the Lotus Elise is under 2,000lbs proving it can be done with modern safety equipment.
The term "Sports Car" has always been more emotional than actual facts and figures. Picturing yourself blasting through an Italian mountain road with your favorite gal is much more romantic in an MG than any modern 911. Even if the 911 is 10 miles up the road after leaving you in the dust.
It's a sad state as fewer and fewer people truly understand or appreciate what a Sports Car really is. Which is why there are so few to pick from. Then again, the Sports Car was never meant to be for the masses. It's for the person that truly appreciates the rawness only a Sports Car can offer. So actually, the Sports Car market is where it should be - reserved for the select few that truly understand.
Growing up my father had his own basic definition = "If it has back seats, it cannot be a sports car". Now that's not to say anything without rear seats is a Sports Car - your Exotic and Hyper car category is made up of mostly two seaters that jump beyond the Sports Car category into a field of their own, but that discussion is for another thread.
They are not terribly comfortable, don't hold much for luggage, loud, all kinds of fluid smells, very sparse on creature comforts if any at all.
Basically something your typical mother-in-law would never ride in.
Sports cars are a dying breed and someday I fear, they will be gone forever.
The 911 stopped being a sports car with the 996 and many argue the 964 is the last of the "true" Sports Car 911.
The 991 is too heavy, too quiet, and way too comfortable. You know, everything the purists said about the 928 - and they were right.
The 928 has never and will never be a sports car. With the death of the 928 & 944 the Porsche model family got up and moved one chair over.
The 911 became the GT and the Boxster became the sports car of the family.
If you want to go old school, a Sports Car must be a roadster - not a convertible, there is a difference (Jeremy Clarkson said so.......)
"But, but....the 911 is so fast..." So is the Countach and the Testarossa, two cars never considered Sports Cars.
The GMC Syclone could spank most Sports Cars around any track & it's a truck. Absolute speed and lap times are not what makes a sports car.
Some of the greatest sports cars of all time are not really that fast:
- Austin Healey
- MG's
- Morgan
- Lotus (before the Esprit)
Back in the 50's and 60's the Corvette was coined a sports car, by GM. To the rest of the world it was a bit bloated but it got a pass since it was American. Everything "we" did was a bit bigger and heavier anyway.
1967 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,360lbs
1697 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = 2,380lbs
My how times have changed......
2012 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,208lbs
2012 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = over 3,000lbs - the turbo will be over 3,200
Starting to make sense yet? "But....with modern safety and equipment......"
Meanwhile the Lotus Elise is under 2,000lbs proving it can be done with modern safety equipment.
The term "Sports Car" has always been more emotional than actual facts and figures. Picturing yourself blasting through an Italian mountain road with your favorite gal is much more romantic in an MG than any modern 911. Even if the 911 is 10 miles up the road after leaving you in the dust.
It's a sad state as fewer and fewer people truly understand or appreciate what a Sports Car really is. Which is why there are so few to pick from. Then again, the Sports Car was never meant to be for the masses. It's for the person that truly appreciates the rawness only a Sports Car can offer. So actually, the Sports Car market is where it should be - reserved for the select few that truly understand.
Growing up my father had his own basic definition = "If it has back seats, it cannot be a sports car". Now that's not to say anything without rear seats is a Sports Car - your Exotic and Hyper car category is made up of mostly two seaters that jump beyond the Sports Car category into a field of their own, but that discussion is for another thread.
02-02-2012, 11:17 PM
#34
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So now you are saying that my old Corvette is not a sports car. 
You need to study the history of the sports car to answer that question. The birth of the sports car belongs to the UK. Where light weight cars designed for blasting through the countryside were created.
They are not terribly comfortable, don't hold much for luggage, loud, all kinds of fluid smells, very sparse on creature comforts if any at all.
Basically something your typical mother-in-law would never ride in.
Sports cars are a dying breed and someday I fear, they will be gone forever.
The 911 stopped being a sports car with the 996 and many argue the 964 is the last of the "true" Sports Car 911.
The 991 is too heavy, too quiet, and way too comfortable. You know, everything the purists said about the 928 - and they were right.
The 928 has never and will never be a sports car. With the death of the 928 & 944 the Porsche model family got up and moved one chair over.
The 911 became the GT and the Boxster became the sports car of the family.
If you want to go old school, a Sports Car must be a roadster - not a convertible, there is a difference (Jeremy Clarkson said so.......)
"But, but....the 911 is so fast..." So is the Countach and the Testarossa, two cars never considered Sports Cars.
The GMC Syclone could spank most Sports Cars around any track & it's a truck. Absolute speed and lap times are not what makes a sports car.
Some of the greatest sports cars of all time are not really that fast:
Back in the 50's and 60's the Corvette was coined a sports car, by GM. To the rest of the world it was a bit bloated but it got a pass since it was American. Everything "we" did was a bit bigger and heavier anyway.
1967 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,360lbs
1697 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = 2,380lbs
My how times have changed......
2012 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,208lbs
2012 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = over 3,000lbs - the turbo will be over 3,200
Starting to make sense yet? "But....with modern safety and equipment......"
Meanwhile the Lotus Elise is under 2,000lbs proving it can be done with modern safety equipment.
The term "Sports Car" has always been more emotional than actual facts and figures. Picturing yourself blasting through an Italian mountain road with your favorite gal is much more romantic in an MG than any modern 911. Even if the 911 is 10 miles up the road after leaving you in the dust.
It's a sad state as fewer and fewer people truly understand or appreciate what a Sports Car really is. Which is why there are so few to pick from. Then again, the Sports Car was never meant to be for the masses. It's for the person that truly appreciates the rawness only a Sports Car can offer. So actually, the Sports Car market is where it should be - reserved for the select few that truly understand.
Growing up my father had his own basic definition = "If it has back seats, it cannot be a sports car". Now that's not to say anything without rear seats is a Sports Car - your Exotic and Hyper car category is made up of mostly two seaters that jump beyond the Sports Car category into a field of their own, but that discussion is for another thread.
They are not terribly comfortable, don't hold much for luggage, loud, all kinds of fluid smells, very sparse on creature comforts if any at all.
Basically something your typical mother-in-law would never ride in.
Sports cars are a dying breed and someday I fear, they will be gone forever.
The 911 stopped being a sports car with the 996 and many argue the 964 is the last of the "true" Sports Car 911.
The 991 is too heavy, too quiet, and way too comfortable. You know, everything the purists said about the 928 - and they were right.
The 928 has never and will never be a sports car. With the death of the 928 & 944 the Porsche model family got up and moved one chair over.
The 911 became the GT and the Boxster became the sports car of the family.
If you want to go old school, a Sports Car must be a roadster - not a convertible, there is a difference (Jeremy Clarkson said so.......)
"But, but....the 911 is so fast..." So is the Countach and the Testarossa, two cars never considered Sports Cars.
The GMC Syclone could spank most Sports Cars around any track & it's a truck. Absolute speed and lap times are not what makes a sports car.
Some of the greatest sports cars of all time are not really that fast:
- Austin Healey
- MG's
- Morgan
- Lotus (before the Esprit)
Back in the 50's and 60's the Corvette was coined a sports car, by GM. To the rest of the world it was a bit bloated but it got a pass since it was American. Everything "we" did was a bit bigger and heavier anyway.
1967 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,360lbs
1697 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = 2,380lbs
My how times have changed......
2012 Corvette Curb Weight = 3,208lbs
2012 Porsche 911 Curb Weight = over 3,000lbs - the turbo will be over 3,200
Starting to make sense yet? "But....with modern safety and equipment......"
Meanwhile the Lotus Elise is under 2,000lbs proving it can be done with modern safety equipment.
The term "Sports Car" has always been more emotional than actual facts and figures. Picturing yourself blasting through an Italian mountain road with your favorite gal is much more romantic in an MG than any modern 911. Even if the 911 is 10 miles up the road after leaving you in the dust.
It's a sad state as fewer and fewer people truly understand or appreciate what a Sports Car really is. Which is why there are so few to pick from. Then again, the Sports Car was never meant to be for the masses. It's for the person that truly appreciates the rawness only a Sports Car can offer. So actually, the Sports Car market is where it should be - reserved for the select few that truly understand.
Growing up my father had his own basic definition = "If it has back seats, it cannot be a sports car". Now that's not to say anything without rear seats is a Sports Car - your Exotic and Hyper car category is made up of mostly two seaters that jump beyond the Sports Car category into a field of their own, but that discussion is for another thread.
02-02-2012, 11:22 PM
#36
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Every car.....
2012 Shelby Mustang weighs the same as an F150 did 10 years ago. Steve McQueen would NOT approve.[/QUOTE]
I'll try and be nice
Dead on the side of the road with the rest of the Fiat's
I only drove one, as I walked away the salesmen was running towards me with a hose screaming about the smoke coming from the engine compartment.
Whoops
In all honestly, one of the greatest sports cars ever made.
Anyone who doesn't understand how aweosme a Miata is, must attend a Miata Spec Nasa Race.
They call them "Spec Piñata's" for a reason. I've never seen so many people having that much fun on a race track, ever.
2012 Shelby Mustang weighs the same as an F150 did 10 years ago. Steve McQueen would NOT approve.[/QUOTE]
I'll try and be nice
Dead on the side of the road with the rest of the Fiat's
I only drove one, as I walked away the salesmen was running towards me with a hose screaming about the smoke coming from the engine compartment.
Whoops
In all honestly, one of the greatest sports cars ever made.
Anyone who doesn't understand how aweosme a Miata is, must attend a Miata Spec Nasa Race.
They call them "Spec Piñata's" for a reason. I've never seen so many people having that much fun on a race track, ever.
02-02-2012, 11:23 PM
#37
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
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02-02-2012, 11:27 PM
#38
Administrator - "Tyson"
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02-02-2012, 11:35 PM
#39
Instructor
Thread Starter
I'll try and be nice
Dead on the side of the road with the rest of the Fiat's
I only drove one, as I walked away the salesmen was running towards me with a hose screaming about the smoke coming from the engine compartment.
Whoops
In all honestly, one of the greatest sports cars ever made.
Anyone who doesn't understand how aweosme a Miata is, must attend a Miata Spec Nasa Race.
They call them "Spec Piñata's" for a reason. I've never seen so many people having that much fun on a race track, ever.[/QUOTE]
Touché! I lob it out there for fodder for the crowd. Well done.
'79 Fiat lasted 8 months in for me in 1982 as it not only was black with no AC I drove in Savannah and Hilton Head when it was running. The exhaust flange stayed off quite often and it's the only time I've ever rvived a ticket for driving a car that was too loud. Ironic but I was 17 and paid for it myself because the freaking VW dealer wouldn't cut me a deal on a 914 he had sitting on his lot.
86 MR2 I've have to disagree on a little. College car that was bullit proof except for the time I hydroplaned intoma ditch in rural South Carolina at 11:00 pm into a water filled ditch only running 45 mph. Sometimes light weight, water and physics don't mesh. I paid $50 to two rednecks in a jeep to pull me out before any officials showed and after they got it out it started right up and got me to Hilton Head before the evening's event were over.
Agree on Miata. Just out of the army and traded a 90 300 ZX and a girl I was dating " convinced/inspired " me to get one. What a perfectly balance car. Made you smile every time you pushed it a little. Talk about nailing a design from the get go. Also the more basic the package the better that car was or is. Should be every enthusiast first car when they start driving.
02-03-2012, 12:00 AM
#41
Drifting
I remember when I went from a '76 911S to a '79 928. The 928 seemed, and was, much larger and heavier. Now the 991 has grown to be essentially the same size as the 928. The 928 was also much quieter and smoother riding. I hav enot yet driven a 991 but from everything I have read they seem to be heading in that direction too.
But all cars evolve. My '76 911S was quite different than my '67 911, a little larger, quite a bit more powerful, smoother, etc.,etc.
But all cars evolve. My '76 911S was quite different than my '67 911, a little larger, quite a bit more powerful, smoother, etc.,etc.
02-03-2012, 12:32 AM
#42
Race Car
That was the problem with the 928. As with anything that was ahead of its time, it was overly priced and under-appreciated. If Porsche waited 25 years to release it, people would be snapping it up.
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
Dan
'91 928GT S/C
475hp/460lb.ft
02-03-2012, 01:03 AM
#43
Burning Brakes
So, a Triumph TR3 is a roadster, a MGB is a convertible, and a Lotus Elan is a convertible coupe. All are considered "sports cars."
James
Last edited by jheis; 02-03-2012 at 01:33 AM.
02-03-2012, 09:43 AM
#45
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James,
Thanks for clarifying the roadster definition. I completely forgot about side curtains.
The early Lotus Elan didn't have frames around the windows that came on the later version. Mine actually had a little metal tab at the top of the window that you used to raise and lower it, no cranking. It was a hilarious car.
Thanks for clarifying the roadster definition. I completely forgot about side curtains.
The early Lotus Elan didn't have frames around the windows that came on the later version. Mine actually had a little metal tab at the top of the window that you used to raise and lower it, no cranking. It was a hilarious car.