Door lock refurbish/repair
01-15-2012 | 04:41 PM
#1
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From: San Diego, CA
Door lock refurbish/repair
I need some help on the internals of the alarm version door locks.
My "long" key doesn't slide all the way into the driver's side lock anymore, so I've been having to use the passenger lock. Looks to be about 1/4" shy of all the way in. I removed the lock from the door with the idea that I would take it apart and find out if something is stuck at the end of the cylinder or one of the tumblers is damaged, etc. A post I read here ( http://jenniskens.livedsl.nl/Technic...5/MyTip518.htm ) made it sound like I could slide the cylinder out without a working key, but I've removed the two retaining pins as per those instructions and have had no luck getting the cylinder out--I'm not surprised looking at how the tumblers seem to work. It seems the only way to get the cylinder out intact is with a working key in the cylinder but, alas, I can't get the working key all the way in.
I know I could just order a new alarm lock ($300+), of course, but I'm looking for ideas. I read on the same site that the last few tumblers for the alarm contact are on a second cylinder so I was thinking that maybe I could order a "short" non-alarm key to turn the "main" cylinder and pull it out. However, it seems kind of strange to me that you could unlock the alarm-version doors with a short key, so I don't know if I believe this either and was looking for ideas before wasting time/money on a new short key, since I only have 2 long keys.
Has anyone done anything like this? Is there any other way to get the cylinder out without destroying the lock?
All help and ideas appreciated.
My "long" key doesn't slide all the way into the driver's side lock anymore, so I've been having to use the passenger lock. Looks to be about 1/4" shy of all the way in. I removed the lock from the door with the idea that I would take it apart and find out if something is stuck at the end of the cylinder or one of the tumblers is damaged, etc. A post I read here ( http://jenniskens.livedsl.nl/Technic...5/MyTip518.htm ) made it sound like I could slide the cylinder out without a working key, but I've removed the two retaining pins as per those instructions and have had no luck getting the cylinder out--I'm not surprised looking at how the tumblers seem to work. It seems the only way to get the cylinder out intact is with a working key in the cylinder but, alas, I can't get the working key all the way in.
I know I could just order a new alarm lock ($300+), of course, but I'm looking for ideas. I read on the same site that the last few tumblers for the alarm contact are on a second cylinder so I was thinking that maybe I could order a "short" non-alarm key to turn the "main" cylinder and pull it out. However, it seems kind of strange to me that you could unlock the alarm-version doors with a short key, so I don't know if I believe this either and was looking for ideas before wasting time/money on a new short key, since I only have 2 long keys.
Has anyone done anything like this? Is there any other way to get the cylinder out without destroying the lock?
All help and ideas appreciated.
Last edited by Luis_M; 01-15-2012 at 05:08 PM.
01-15-2012 | 05:22 PM
#2
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From: San Diego, CA
Also, if anyone has an old alarm-type door lock with a working key they'd be willing to part with, I could try to rekey that. Ideally, the "old type" lock with the squared frame around the screw hole on the side that sits closer to the handle (lock style on right in pic below), rather than the "new type" with the circular frame around the screw hole that sits farther away (on the left), so I don't have to cut any new holes in my door....
Last edited by Luis_M; 01-15-2012 at 06:07 PM. Reason: add pic
01-15-2012 | 09:58 PM
#3
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From: El Cajones CA
Hey Luis, I rekeyed the ignition on my 79 but have never messed with the door locks. I bought a few items from a guy that was parting out his 79 a few years ago, one of the things he threw in was this lock. I'm not sure what the silicone over the wires is all about. You are welcomed to it if you think it can use it. No key with it though.
Raymond
Raymond
01-16-2012 | 02:32 PM
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I had the same problem with my driver side door: the long alarm key would not go in all of the way. Disassembling the lock was a real PIA.
There are two tumblers in the lock: one long and one short. The longer tumbler activates the mechanical door lock and the shorter tumbler, at the end closest to the electrical switch, activates the alarm, with the idea being that the short key turns only the long tumbler, and the long alarm key turns both simultaneously.
My key would not enter the lock all of the way because the two tumblers had become rotated out of line with one another due to wear to pretty much all of the internal parts. Basically what was happening was that the small alarm tumbler was not rotating to the locked position with the larger tumbler, and that prevented the long key from going all of the way in.
I do not recall if the locking tumbler could be removed without a key, but having a key inserted does keep all of the little parts together. I did not have a short key, but I was able to move the alarm tumbler back into the locked position using a dental pick and could then insert the long key all of the way. I was able to repair the lock so that it worked reliably by cleaning it and carefully filing and polishing its various bits and pieces. It took a great many trial assemblies before I was satisfied, but it has been nearly a year with no further problems.
Be very careful and observant as you take things apart, particularly the orientation of the little slides and the centering spring. You might also get one of the little plastic arms that connects the lock mechanism to the rest of the door: if it did not break when you removed it, it just might when you reinstall everything...
Bob
There are two tumblers in the lock: one long and one short. The longer tumbler activates the mechanical door lock and the shorter tumbler, at the end closest to the electrical switch, activates the alarm, with the idea being that the short key turns only the long tumbler, and the long alarm key turns both simultaneously.
My key would not enter the lock all of the way because the two tumblers had become rotated out of line with one another due to wear to pretty much all of the internal parts. Basically what was happening was that the small alarm tumbler was not rotating to the locked position with the larger tumbler, and that prevented the long key from going all of the way in.
I do not recall if the locking tumbler could be removed without a key, but having a key inserted does keep all of the little parts together. I did not have a short key, but I was able to move the alarm tumbler back into the locked position using a dental pick and could then insert the long key all of the way. I was able to repair the lock so that it worked reliably by cleaning it and carefully filing and polishing its various bits and pieces. It took a great many trial assemblies before I was satisfied, but it has been nearly a year with no further problems.
Be very careful and observant as you take things apart, particularly the orientation of the little slides and the centering spring. You might also get one of the little plastic arms that connects the lock mechanism to the rest of the door: if it did not break when you removed it, it just might when you reinstall everything...
Bob
01-21-2012 | 08:41 PM
#6
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From: San Diego, CA
I had the same problem with my driver side door: the long alarm key would not go in all of the way. Disassembling the lock was a real PIA.
There are two tumblers in the lock: one long and one short. The longer tumbler activates the mechanical door lock and the shorter tumbler, at the end closest to the electrical switch, activates the alarm, with the idea being that the short key turns only the long tumbler, and the long alarm key turns both simultaneously.
My key would not enter the lock all of the way because the two tumblers had become rotated out of line with one another due to wear to pretty much all of the internal parts. Basically what was happening was that the small alarm tumbler was not rotating to the locked position with the larger tumbler, and that prevented the long key from going all of the way in.
I do not recall if the locking tumbler could be removed without a key, but having a key inserted does keep all of the little parts together. I did not have a short key, but I was able to move the alarm tumbler back into the locked position using a dental pick and could then insert the long key all of the way. I was able to repair the lock so that it worked reliably by cleaning it and carefully filing and polishing its various bits and pieces. It took a great many trial assemblies before I was satisfied, but it has been nearly a year with no further problems.
Be very careful and observant as you take things apart, particularly the orientation of the little slides and the centering spring. You might also get one of the little plastic arms that connects the lock mechanism to the rest of the door: if it did not break when you removed it, it just might when you reinstall everything...
Bob
There are two tumblers in the lock: one long and one short. The longer tumbler activates the mechanical door lock and the shorter tumbler, at the end closest to the electrical switch, activates the alarm, with the idea being that the short key turns only the long tumbler, and the long alarm key turns both simultaneously.
My key would not enter the lock all of the way because the two tumblers had become rotated out of line with one another due to wear to pretty much all of the internal parts. Basically what was happening was that the small alarm tumbler was not rotating to the locked position with the larger tumbler, and that prevented the long key from going all of the way in.
I do not recall if the locking tumbler could be removed without a key, but having a key inserted does keep all of the little parts together. I did not have a short key, but I was able to move the alarm tumbler back into the locked position using a dental pick and could then insert the long key all of the way. I was able to repair the lock so that it worked reliably by cleaning it and carefully filing and polishing its various bits and pieces. It took a great many trial assemblies before I was satisfied, but it has been nearly a year with no further problems.
Be very careful and observant as you take things apart, particularly the orientation of the little slides and the centering spring. You might also get one of the little plastic arms that connects the lock mechanism to the rest of the door: if it did not break when you removed it, it just might when you reinstall everything...
Bob
I removed the lock and removed the small alarm switch assembly off the back held in by the two tiny screws. My lock did the same thing as Bob's. The separate rear cylinder for the alarm at the back of the lock had rotated just far enough from the rest position that the tumbler pins were able to pop back out into a different gap and hold it in this off-axis position, so the key was going into the front cylinder but could not be advanced into the rear cylinder. Using a pick set (thanks for the idea Bob) I was able to hold the tumbler pins back in and rotate the rear cylinder back into the rest position so that the key would go all the way in.
Now the lock works again, but it is sticky and the alarm tumbler pins are not deploying fully, so I think this could happen again. I wanted to take it apart fully and clean it properly and swap any badly worn tumbler pins with parts from the second lock, but even with the long key all the way in and the two pins drilled out, I am unable to pull the cylinder(s) out of the front of lock. I don't have any short keys. I've pulled reasonably hard but I don't want to ruin the lock.
Does anyone know the trick to get the cylinders out of the alarm version lock?
01-21-2012 | 08:51 PM
#7
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From: San Diego, CA
2. If memory serves me correctly you may have to use a short key to do this because the alarm bit of the lock actuated by the long key is a separate cylinder at the rear and does not come out of the front. It should be obvious when it is all in front of you.
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01-22-2012 | 02:20 AM
#8
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Hello Luis - I see that you are still at it. I don't know how much help this will be as I did this quite awhile ago and my memory is not to be trusted...
Anyway, after extracting the pins that retain the longer tumbler, the long key should allow you to remove it since you were able to get it to insert all of the way. It should simply slide out on the key leaving the short tumbler and the rotating part with the round **** on it in place.
My recollection of the next bit is not too clear, but the part of the lock with the round **** on it is removed from the side and then the short tumbler can be removed using the long key (removed from the long tumbler). I don't remember exactly what happened with the centering spring, but it was fairly easy to reinstall it during reassembly.
There was nothing I could do to fix the wear of the rectangular hole in the tumblers through which the key inserts even though it was the major contributor to the problem. All I could do was smooth some internal burrs in the lock body and file and polish the locking tabs of each tumbler (after complete disassembly and cleaning) so that everything worked smoothly. BTW, be careful when you remove the key from the tumblers and do not mix up the tabs and be sure to keep them in their original orientation...
Use the key to replace the short tumbler and test for smooth operation. (I have a vague recollection that the part with the **** should be replaced at this time to hold the short tumbler in place.) I am afraid that I don't remember the technique to make the return spring behave, but FWIW, once I figured it out, it was easy. Once you are satisfied with the short tumbler, use the key to insert the long tumbler and make sure everything works smoothly before resetting the retaining pins.
HTH, Bob
Anyway, after extracting the pins that retain the longer tumbler, the long key should allow you to remove it since you were able to get it to insert all of the way. It should simply slide out on the key leaving the short tumbler and the rotating part with the round **** on it in place.
My recollection of the next bit is not too clear, but the part of the lock with the round **** on it is removed from the side and then the short tumbler can be removed using the long key (removed from the long tumbler). I don't remember exactly what happened with the centering spring, but it was fairly easy to reinstall it during reassembly.
There was nothing I could do to fix the wear of the rectangular hole in the tumblers through which the key inserts even though it was the major contributor to the problem. All I could do was smooth some internal burrs in the lock body and file and polish the locking tabs of each tumbler (after complete disassembly and cleaning) so that everything worked smoothly. BTW, be careful when you remove the key from the tumblers and do not mix up the tabs and be sure to keep them in their original orientation...
Use the key to replace the short tumbler and test for smooth operation. (I have a vague recollection that the part with the **** should be replaced at this time to hold the short tumbler in place.) I am afraid that I don't remember the technique to make the return spring behave, but FWIW, once I figured it out, it was easy. Once you are satisfied with the short tumbler, use the key to insert the long tumbler and make sure everything works smoothly before resetting the retaining pins.
HTH, Bob
