jbrob007

JC, I'll wait till you get up in Columbus and we can take a look at it... This is not a common one like # 53. I think its THE most expensive relay @ around $160 or so... Repairing the old one would be DA BOMB!!!

993Turbo, Where did you get your relay? Chances are I'll have to get another one...

Thanks again guys!

Joel

993turbo

haha, I took my relay from my S4 :-) I dont use the S4.

993turbo

Ohhh, almost forgot, if you can live without the interiorlight delay, simply Bridge ''TK'' and ''31L'' in the CE panel where the interior light relay was placed. By doing this you maintain the full functionality of the door switches / Interior lights, rear hatch lock, but lose the delay. This is what I used when I did my fault finding, and its one permanet in the S4 now :-)

jbrob007

O.K. we just went well beyond my knowledge base... How do you "bridge"... or more precisely what do you bridge with..? And, what in the world is a "TK" & "31L"...? I'm sure it cant be THAT difficult, but I'm slowly wading into the shallow end of the electronics pool and dont want to screw it up... A description with PICTURES would be FANTASTIC!!!

I'm a very visual guy... as you can tell by my avatar

Thanks again!

Joel

Landseer

Tactile & visual works even better.
Do you guys pull through a course with that thing, or just run up and down the lake cutting?
We spent 10 years running a moomba down here in VA, but got the bell rang too may times and quit.

86 interior lights are on a parallel system.

They are wired directly from the 30 bus thru fuse 24.
No relay.

There is an expensive relay XXI beginning (EDIT) LATE 86.
Its designed to provide power, no actually it provides an alternate ground path to the same interior lights, but with both door and hatch pins open (doors and hatch shut). So it bypasses the door and/or hatch pins.

This is a delay-off setup. If you drive home at night, turn off the ignition, this relay stays activated for a minute or so.

You open the door, the lights trigger as usual, but when you shut the door the relay keeps them on for a minute.
The opening of the doors, the door pins, are the trigger for the relay it appears. Tells it to takeover when the door is closed.

Basically, the light fixtures always have hot power run to them.

The question becomes how will they ground?
Via door pin? Via relay? Or, via manually switching the lights to the always-on position, which is a direct ground at each fixture so-activated.


I've got $100 or one good pull ( gotta get the old guy up with feet in the both boots, that takes gas ) that says your two door pins are FUBAR.

jbrob007

Landseer, I can get up to 3 or 4 buoys on a course at 31 mph with 15' off (60 ft line). Skiing a slalom course is about TIMING more than anything and it takes practice. We dont have a course locally so its hard to improve. Having said all that, the 1991 American Skier Advance puts out the nicest wake you'd ever want to ski behind - it WAS made exclusively for slalom skiing - and will pull up four people in a hearbeat (they are no longer in production). Everyone in my family slaloms, wakeboards & kneeboard, mostly just recreational up & down the protected areas of the lake - well, until the drunks show up - then we just sit & watch... and laugh

Interior lights: We've gone through EVERY part of the system and it all checks out. No unwanted grounds, good fuse, good door pin activation, good rear hatch pin switch activation, with all SEVEN light switches in working order (cigarette lighter, glove box, both doors (2), map light/over rearview mirror, rear headliner and rear hatch). The only thing left is the interior light delay relay... So, tell me if I'm getting this - if I remove the relay completely then my lights should come on in courtesy mode (door open) and extinguish immediately upon closing the door (without a delay) AND my hatch release should work as well... CORRECT? If so, I'll give it a try once I get back to the car this weekend - nothing to lose at this point

If not, then a new, or at least repaired, relay is my last option...

Thanks,

Joel

Landseer

Here's the lesser - of - importance diagram.
Its highlighting the path of hot 12V power in red.
Starts at that blue 30 bus line I drew, runs through fuse 24 (circled in red) and then basically distributes to all the interior lights. Glove box. Door lights, door safety lights. Hatch lights. Roof lights. Vanity mirror lights if you have them, too.

Landseer

Based on my reading of it and experience with 86, absolutely.

I still think your door pins or the wires associated are screwed up.


I can't figure why the interior lights are not triggered by either door pin.
Doesn't make sense.


I'd trace the door pin wires back to Plug F, terminal 15 and look for continuity there where the two of them come together and enter that plug and the CE panel. I'd try to seat the F 15 electrode onto the panel better.

I might even pull the panel to look behind it and see if there are melts.

Landseer

Actually, now I"m worried about being WRONG.

Look where the Door pins route on the diagram.... right into the relay, nowhere else, via the CE panel path noted above.

Hatch pin doesn't route there.

Am headed back out to the 86 car to look at relays again.

jbrob007

Thanks for the schematic... Read my above question - we were typing at the same time!!

I think you owe me $100... I just refurbished both door pins (following Dewayne's write up) and they are connected with clean ground points / door surface & operate correctly... as does the rear hatch pin switch (under the hatch release).

If we ever meet up, I'll pull ya behind the boat (for FREE) - just hold on tight cause you'll be completely out of the water quicker than you can whistle dixie

Thanks! Joel

jbrob007

Yep... looks like they do. Explains alot, but unfortunately this means the lights wont work (courtesy mode) without the relay or having it bridged (however you do that - I have no idea)

You can keep the $100 and just buy me a couple of beers at the next Frenzy or SITM. I'm gonna try to go to both!!

Landseer

Yep, you are definitely right. Beer.

Relay is the likely cuprit, just like others accurately advised.

So long as the pins to transmit back to the CE panel, which they probably do.

jbrob007

Sooooo... does someone have any directions with PICS on how to "bridge" this relay?? I could care less about the light delay function. I feel like I'm "this close" to getting it done but I dont want to fry my panel either

17prospective buyer

I've spent a couple nights so far tracing through the WSM wiring diagrams from the ground in the hatch above the battery box (MP-IV i think) and basically checking off what is powered by the interior light circuit and what not, anyways, i'm slowing figuring out Porsche's proprietary wiring diagram nomenclature. Do you know if the weird font "K" inside a shaded box means it is a "Kontrol" module? This may be why the interior light relay is expensive, since it is a conventional relay but also houses a small control module which controls the power flow from the pod light switch (2 positions not including off) to some other lights.

It's late, i'm going to sleep. Not sure if i made sense here.

Oh, if you're wondering how to manually bridge the switch poles inside the relay, you should take a look at the Lamps wiring diagram in the WSM (Relay XXI) then follow the wires to the male terminals of the relay, the WSM wiring diagrams label which number terminal on the relay it is, then compare this to the relay.

993turbo

Hi there,

A ''Bridge'' is a little el.cable. If you look at the interior light relay when you tak it out, there pins on the relay are marked. Identify pin ''tk'' and 31L''. Then you put your little El. cable, on the CE panel in the location of the interior light relay in the location of Pin ''tk'' and ''31L'' on the relay.

TK = ground signal in to ce panel from door contacts
31L = ground signal out to interior lights / rear hatch switch etc.

This bridge will then bypass the relay which you dont put back in the car. So, when the door contacts are activated the signal goes directly via the bridge to the interior lights etc.....

This is the way it is on my 88 and 90. (My 84 is somewhat different)