DougM

Are they all or none? Either they crank it over or just click????? I am trying to get my car started after a refresh and when the starter engages, the car "chuggs" when it tries to start, kind of lumpy like when you have a battery dying. I charged up the battery and took it to Autozone and they said it tests fine.

joejoe

Yes they can die a slow death, usually siliniod or brushes going bad. (or both)

928mac

Can you explain this a little more.
Is the car turning over and trying to start.
If it turns fast the slows, then fast for 1/2 a turn then slows,
I think it may be a refresh problem not the starter.

Brad

DougM

More details are in another thread below "euro twin dizzy timing".
Did a motor out refresh on the car.
Got everything back together and motor turned fine(as well as starter) but did not start.
Realized that the balancer was on backward so timing was off.
Used the starter to break the crank bolt free to remove and flip the balancer.
Got everything back together and timing lines up on pulleys, balancer and dizzys.
Go to start and won't start. It acts like it has a dying battery.
Took the battery to Autozone and it tested fine.
The only thing that changed after flipping the balancer and re timing everyting is that I had used the starter to bump the crank and break the bolt free. When I was trying to start it when the timing was out and the balancer was on backward, it had no problem turning the motor.
I am wondering if it is possible that my starter was on the verge of dying and using it to break the bolt loose put it over the edge?

Alan

Well if it really sounds like a dying battery it probably is (but you haven't really explained what you mean by this... how exactly does it sound?).

Anyway to test a battery properly you need to test it with a big load tester - a hand held tester cannot possobly do this.

They need to connect the battery to a large unit in the store (with fan cooling) to properly load test it - try that and see if it tests bad that way.

Alan

danglerb

From what I've heard the hand held conductance type battery testers work well, and are what is required for most battery warranty's. Carbon piles put actual large loads on the battery, but need some skill and interpretation of the results.

pjg

Measure the battery voltage when cranking the starter, if it drops below 10 volts battery is weak, or a bad connection.

blown 87

You need a carbon pile tester to actually load test a battery.
I can not tell you how many NeverStarts and Neverlasts that the parts houses have said are good, but you put a few amps on them (over 150) and the voltage just goes away.

Pretty easy to do, you load them up for 15 seconds at half the rated CCA, them temp correct the final voltage, so not much skill involved other than keeping the load right.
In a nutshell if the voltage goes below about 9.5, the battery is toast at most temps.

Oh yea, a big Interstate for a MB diesel that has about 1200 CCA will actually let smoke out of a fan cooled carbon pile.

blown 87

Or the starter is pulling to many amps due to worn bushings or other problems.
You really have to test each part of the system to figure out all that is going on.
And you have to test them right, like have a fully charged battery before you run any test.

blown 87

One more thing, here is a great battery box paint.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search...earch&search=1

M. Requin

Thanks for this tip!

Alan

They work - but they can only provide a very small load.

A carbon pile load tester is actually quite easy to use (except that the battery had to be removed) and the results are rather straight-forward - at high load you are just monitoring voltage level - over a short time.

The parts shops like hand held testers because they are cheap, really easy to use - even with the battery in the car - and tend to be optimistic - which is very good for them...

Alan

danglerb

But they use SCIENCE, and interpret from measurements of that small load the internal condition of the battery. As a practical matter very few if any batteries are accepted for warranty without a printout from something like a Midtronics.

BTW not giving my own opinion, which I don't have much of either way, just repeating the discussion from Garage Journal and many users of various types of battery tester, some are pile guys, some are both, some are whatever the machine says. One particular group reporting success with the hand helds are the off grid guys who use hand helds to pick the good batteries out of junkyards.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=104118