GregBBRD

Interesting thread.

I'm not saying that this is going to be your problem....however....

There is a condition that can occur where the transmission will "eject" oil from the breather that sits on the top of the case...and this occurs only when the vehicle is driven hard....and always following a repair/rebuild. It will blow transmission fluid out of the "black round vent" with the Mecedes emblem on it, all over the transmission and the exhaust.

I had this happen on two separate transmissions that were rebuilt by two different "Mercedes transmission" experts. One transmission was in and out and taken back apart three times before it was fixed...and the final "fix" was for the rebuilder to supply a different transmission, entirely. The other transmission was "fixed" by only doing it twice....after I told the rebuilder what was wrong. Keep in mind that I'm the guy that had to take them in and out...so I was very motivated to find out the cause.

These experiences, plus other different experiences are why I gave up on the $2500 transmission rebuilds by the "Mercedes experts" and started rebuilding them myself....

nsantolick

I have been in touch with Mastertech and am prepared to get the car to them if necessary. I don't have the receipt here, in Philadelphia, so I can't say what exactly they did.

Honestly, I didn't hassle them at all. No micro-managing. Nothing at all. I said nothing aside from asking for an estimate prior to having it flat-bedded out there. With their reputation, I had full confidence. I still do.

By the way, I put absolutely no blame on them for my current problem. Things happen. I put a fair amount of miles on the car before taking it off the road again. The transmission performed flawlessly until then.

Because of the 279 mile distance between us, I just want to have a local, credible shop take a closer look and see if it's something simple. If it's not, it absolutely goes to Mastertech.

I really want to put this "past" crap behind me. Sure, I've made some big dumb mistakes, several times now, but the car has been pretty good lately, and I learned from it all. No PPI = bad idea. Not checking out shop reputations here was stupid of me, hence this post.

I now do whatever work I can do myself, happily. I just do not want to mess with this job. It's the most important time of the year for me financially. I just can't afford to take days off now but really do need the car fixed as soon as possible, whatever it takes.

Since you suggested me having an adversarial relationship, etc, I'll clarify my history with my 928 & mechanics.

I immediately joined the PCA upon buying my car and went to a meeting solely for advice on where they get their cars done. They had few 928 members, locally, and I didn't get much help in the end. Some recommended shops just did 911's. The factory dealer that many relied on quoted something like $7000 for the timing belt job, and another $700 to re-tension it after it was broken in, etc. Now, that included a 2 year warranty on the work, but still, $7000+?!?!?!

Another queried shop wouldn't say how long they'd have it and frankly, scared me when they said that despite having the factory tension meter, that they don't use it and just use their thumb pressure to "get it right..." Lots of experiences like that happened as I called every shop around...

I committed to just doing the servicing myself and ordered a lot of stuff from Roger. I had a lot of stress & depression in my life after a tremendous personal loss and would not allow myself to touch the 928 until I "got myself together enough" to finish a large project on my Mercedes diesel that I was in the middle of when things got bad for me.

When I finally got to the 928, I had very limited options on where to work on it. I had to do it outside, and once I started the job, I just didn't feel safe with what I had to work with. It was hot as hell out, and during that, I called a fancy shop nearby and they told me what I wanted to hear. Actually, what they told me, in retrospect, was complete BS.

They understood that I already bought everything and quoted something like $450 to do the job. Promised to have it done in 1-2 days, that week. They pulled the intake without even asking me if I wanted that done. It sat there for about 10 weeks, and sure, I called them once a week, at most, and was told most times that it'll be done the following week. Rumor had it that they just lost their Porsche mechanic, and were buying time. They ordered the wrong parts for the intake job, and it got very frustrating.

Towards the end, we talked and they promised to have it done in one more week. I warned them that I just can't keep waiting - that I may pull the car if they don't get to it as promised.

I stopped in in a little over a week and was told that it's almost done now. I inspected it myself and found that they didn't even touch it - that they had lied to me. That's when I told them, quite respectfully, that I was going to pull it and have another shop finish the job.

I discovered another shop just a mile or two away from them and was again told what I wanted to hear - how familiar he was with 928's, and worse yet, the bad reputation the the first place has. I was assured that he'd have it finished in about 2 weeks.

The owner of that next shop picked it up uneventfully. I settled my bill. ($1,100) and left on good terms. The owner of that second shop really is nice and did eventually get it together. There too though, I checked on it about once a week, and was told it'll be done in one more week. I kind became friends with the owner, and some of those weekly "checks" I'd do were more like meeting after the shop closes, nearby, for drinks.

Nice guy. He also took over 10 weeks to get it together, but he did get it together, and I have no complaints with him now. I even had him do some work on the Mercedes after all of this. There too, it took a month+ longer than he said it would, but he did a great job and the bill was very reasonable. (Replacing rusted trailing arms - brake servicing)

As fate dictated, the transmission soon blew up. I had that second shop look at it, but fortunately discovered Mastertech. Roger helped coordinate things and I felt very secure with their stellar reputation. I made it a point to not be a pain in the ***, didn't call much at all and was very, very pleased with the results. No micro-managing whatsoever.

Unfortunately, again, soon after the transmission job was done, the car developed a problem that in the end proved to be bad ignition coils. Conditions had improved for me, in as much as I finally had garage space available. My father died right about then though, and I still wasn't that great after a lot of other life problems.

I got an apartment in Philadelphia a few weeks later, but still have my other place in Northeastern Pennsylvania, some 90 minutes away. I'm probably buying a real lift for there this year, and have several projects planned afterwards.

Anyway, I fixed the car myself this last time. New coils, spark plugs, ignition wires, radiator, RMB, new wheels, P-Zero runflats, tire pressure monitoring system, stereo work, killer GPS & a few other things.

It HAD sat though, for over a year by the time I was done. I took it literally across the street for a state inspection and felt that since they'd have it on a lift anyway, that they could add the transmission fluid. It's a small, crappy town, but the owner DOES have an impressive collection of foreign cars and is into SCCA racing. He's willing to do any work, and actually asks for instructions for jobs he's not familiar with.

I called Mastertech to see which fluid they had used and how much I'd need, with the new radiator, etc. Didn't seem like a big deal. Bad luck struck again though. I was pressed for time the day I took it in for the inspection, and the owner was away on vacation. I tried to tell the manager the procedure, and arrogantly was cut off and assured that "they know what they're doing..."

I picked it up at closing time and took it out. From that moment, it didn't shift properly. The first thing I noticed was that, even with mild acceleration, that it at times wouldn't shift, and when it would, it was very hard. Chirped the tires sort of crap. I felt they overfilled it and had it back in the next morning. I was with the mechanic as he siphoned out enough to get it to the proper level and had driven the car for 45 minutes, slowly, to assure it was warmed up properly. He only needed to remove 1-2 ounces, at most. The shifting improved. It wasn't perfect, but well enough, I guess.

Here in Philadelphia, at one point it started slipping. Over 3 short drives, say, in a week or so it seemed to worsen. I ended up taking it to Tillson Motorcars. http://www.tillsonmotorcars.com/ They're on that list someone posted here, by the way. Great shop. Porsche's all over the place. A couple of early 1960's Ferraris too... :-)

I love that shop. They got me in the same day. At one point, four people were involved working on it. This is when we discovered transmission oil all over the place. It took around 3 quarts to fill it and they definitely know what they're doing. The shop had another 928 in when I was there, and the manager, Ed, is wonderful. He actually was involved in importing/converting gray market 928's back in the day. He was very familiar with 928's particularly.

They wiped down what they could and ran it, with brakes applied, through different gears as we ALL searched for the source of the leak. Nothing was obvious and they suggested the pan gasket being a possibility. Despite their experience, they did acknowledge that they are not transmission specialists, and knowing that Mastertech had recently rebuilt it, they suggested I first talk to them.

Anyway, that's why I posted this. Before a 279 mile drive/flatbed/whatever, I just wanted a competent, recommended shop to rule out something simple. If it isn't something simple, I'll get it back to Mastertech with the utmost confidence.

It troubles me that perhaps it's not simple, and for all I know it'll need another rebuild. I certainly won't fault them. It's my fault that I didn't get it checked sooner.

There was no puddles of fluid at any time, until recently. I had no clue that it was low. I, perhaps wrongly, felt that it was just slightly overfilled. It's kept in a 660 car capacity parking garage in Rittenhouse and I'm forbidden from working on it there, of course. I wonder with all of the computer monitoring of everything, why Porsche didn't throw a sensor in for the transmission level?

nsantolick

I was there, observing it all. It's just a shop across the street from my NEPA place. I had driven it back from Philadelphia and wanted to check to see the fluid level. It was down 2 quarts, ugh...

It's funny. I asked the mechanic there if he's familiar with this cars transmission, and he admitted he wasn't. I said, "It's pretty simple. You've got to fill it from under the car. I've already warmed the transmission up, so just make sure it's running, put it in neutral, pull the parking brake & top off to the high line.

He then raised it up on the lift, without starting it. He said "it's full - look at it..."

I reminded him that it needs to be running. He started it and raised it again. As I watched, the fluid level lowered and to my surprise, it took a little over 2 quarts to fill it properly. Drove it back to Philadelphia then, called Mastertech & posted this message...

nsantolick

You know, it just occurred to me; The first day that I had it back on the road, and took it immediately across the street to a state inspection shop, the kid that worked on it, probably around 25 years old, added the fluid, which I had provided. I was back the next morning, suspecting overfilling, and watched him siphon a bit out.

When I brought it back in the next day, he asked if it was a German car. I guess that sums it up...

The thing is, he used huge channel lock pliers to unscrew the reservoir cap. I didn't think much of it, and he used them again to tighten the cap on. When I had it checked at Tillson, in Philadelphia, I believe they commented on how tight the cap was...

I'm still waiting to find a local shop, but I wonder if perhaps that's the problem? It's leaked sporadically since. Sure, it sat for a year, and contamination is a possibility I suppose, but prior to that, everything was tip top.

Today I checked twice, and there wasn't a drop of fluid under the car. The last time I checked, there was probably around 3-4 ounces under the transmission.

I'm prepared for "whatever" but maybe, just maybe, that's the problem. Perhaps the reservoir was damaged with the giant pliers/serious over-torquing. It does seem to only lose fluid when under heavier loads. Sure, the Philadelphia shop ran it under some amount of load, but nothing that compares to accelerating from 35 to 80MPH up a very steep hill, as I was when my car produced a smoke screen behind me. lol

On the other hand, oil is clearly visible higher up, on the other side, near the valves. Maybe it gets blown around at speed or something?

nsantolick

You know, it just occurred to me; The first day that I had it back on the road, and took it immediately across the street to a state inspection shop, the kid that worked on it, probably around 25 years old, at most added the fluid, which I had provided. I was back the next morning, suspecting overfilling, and watched him siphon a bit out.

When I brought it back in the next day, he asked if it was a German car. I guess that sums it up...

The thing is, he used huge channel lock pliers to unscrew the reservoir cap for some reason. I didn't think much of it at the time, and he used them again to tighten the cap on. When I had it checked at Tillson, in Philadelphia, I believe they commented on how tight the cap was...

I'm still waiting to find a local shop, but I wonder if perhaps that's the problem? It's leaked sporadically since. Sure, it sat for a year, and contamination is a possibility I suppose, but prior to that, everything was tip top.

Today I checked twice, and there wasn't a drop of fluid under the car. The last time I checked, there was probably around 3-4 ounces under the transmission.

I'm prepared for "whatever" but maybe, just maybe, that's the problem. Perhaps the reservoir was cracked or otherwise damaged with the giant pliers/likely over-torquing. It does seem to only lose fluid when under heavier loads. Sure, the Philadelphia shop ran it under some amount of load, but nothing that compares to accelerating from 35 to 80MPH up a very steep hill, as I was when my car produced a smoke screen behind me. lol

On the other hand, oil is clearly visible higher up, on the other side, near the valves. Maybe it gets blown around at speed or something?

Are these reservoirs relatively fragile? Does the heat cause them to become more brittle with time?

Landseer

Well, shops are like restaurants. Different ones serve different things. Can't get the best steak at a Thai.

Mixing shops is dangerous. We faced a crazy situation down here a few months ago. Watched a 951 make its rounds through 3 of the low end redneck ford/chevy/gm backyard shops, end up at ours. Did some work. Fixed his fuel lines, replaced the original wp/tb/bb. Told the guy, original owner 86, 48Kmi, he was facing dramatic maintenance from his neglect of this car --- car was so neglected, collapsed mounts, original wires, etc. Wealthy owner, btw. We are a german only shop. Car ran pretty good, but heat sheilds were hitting due to MM's and wires misfiring due to moving them... but ok.

Next thing, the car cycles over a three week period thru 2 of the same shops again, sitting in the yards / driveways of them, saw it once in the garage / shop as we drove buy. Hmmm.

Next its at the Porsche dealer. Sits there a couple weeks.

Next, the guy shows up screaming, swearing and turning purple, shaking.
Wants us to pay for a bolt in his turbocharger. WTF? Highly unlikely we did this, much more likely the other shops did as the intake air cleaner is always the first thing that comes off in any service on these.

So, try to choose the best shops and stay with them. They will warranty their work if they are the only guys inside and if you don't micromanage them in their expertise.

If you give instructions, you own it.


Get your car to the pros, Nick, with exclusive proven 928 expertise.. You are making serial bad decisions with selections and attempts to manage the non pro shops. Or save your sanity and punt. Respectfully.

If I didn't have time on hands and a shop, I wouldn't give a 928 the time of day let alone own one . Couldn't afford it.

tmpusfugit

My car, an '84 will leave a puddle after sitting for a period of time, if it is overfilled. Set on the low line when running and cold, or the high line when hot, no puddling. Give the amount of work done on your transmission, as well as having several inexperienced hands in it, it is difficult to point you in any direction other than what you have been asking for, a highly quailfied 928 repair shop. I am not certain that is much more than an oxymoron given you have limited the geographics to Phildelphia area. One of the fellow Rennlister's point of view is "look in a mirror, that is the best 928 mechanic you know". And that may be true even if you don't own a single tool....

That said one other thought comes to mind...the aluminum washers that seal the fittings to and from the oil cooler up front are single use items. Yet, for some reason many people attempt to reuse them. I had a nasty leak that looked for all the world to be a leaky front seal or leaky torque converter. When I used brake cleaner on the whole transmission case, drove the car a few miles, put it up in the air, the source of the leak was obvious. $2.00 worth of aluminum rings later, proper torqued to spec, no more leak AT ALL. I was ready to pull the transmission and have it rebuilt before this, I already have many of the rebuild parts, thanks Roger.... YMMV, but I would not quite yet give up on simple things...

nsantolick

I agree completely. I've explained how I learned this the hard way, but really, I look at things way differently now and if anything, I'm just a little concerned about this PITA reputation that I've created for myself, venting here so much in the past.

Good references, particularly from Rennlist are essential. With that, I'm definitely okay just trusting the shop, letting them alone & waiting to write the check for a job, well done.

If impatience though starts to become tough for me, I've already scoped out the best Psychiatrists in the area, also with great references, so I'm sure things will be okay no matter what now. lol :-)

Landseer

Well, I might need that list, keep it handy!

nsantolick

I was wondering, if my suspicion about a damaged plastic reservoir proves to be correct, is that particularly tough to replace? Can it be done, easily enough, on jack-stands?

If it was compromised, is it possible that it'd blow out fluid under a heavy load, like flooring it up a sharp hill?

If that was the source of my leak, could air turbulence blow fluid from there to the valves on the upper left side of the transmission housing?

M. Requin

First, what I said. Your posts 18 and 19 tell the story. Second, you are back to bad behavior Nick! Stop theorizing, and start over. Either pick a shop like Landseer described or check out the trans level yourself. First, get the car up on stands, then it's not hard to check the reservoir and the cap. The latter is important, could have been channel-locked to death, or cross-threaded - and also make sure the correct washer is in place! It has to fit just right. Any crack in the reservoir should not be hard to spot once everything is clean. After you have done that then you can check fluid level and make sure it is correct. All that done, if you still have problems, and I'll bet you won't, it's time for a 928 trans specialist, and IMHO that means back to Mastertech.

M. Requin

And please take the above as friendly ribbing- I know you are frustrated and for me, that's when I don't mind someone telling me to relax and think things through. Good luck!

NC928S4

The plastic reservoir can be replaced when on jack-stands. Roger has the part for about $40. You will need to catch and replace a lot of fluid in this repair. I hope you don't repeat the over full - under fill saga in the process...

Mrmerlin

Nick please answer the question of where the fluid may be dripping out of, did you understand my post about the weep hole on the mating block of the transmission.
Did you locate the vent hole that Greg was pointing out.
Please reread these posts and answer the questions that have been asked.

From everything you have posted it sounds like your taking the car to unqualified repair personal and its probably time for you to be the Responsible mechanaic since you have plenty of info here you should be able to figure things.
But please answer the questions Greg and myself have asked

nsantolick

I'm sorry not to have answered yet, but I haven't had a chance to check under the car since that last 2 quart top-off, so I haven't checked the weep hole or vent yet.

This post was meant to just help me find a respected regional shop to check things out ASAP.

I am a little confused about those orifices, actually. Well, particularly, what I wonder is, lets assume it was overfilled. Sure, it'll blow out of the weep hole, all over the transmission & exhaust as mentioned, and maybe it in fact mine has done just that.

After that though, shouldn't all return to normal? I mean, if that occurred, couldn't one just degrease the undercarriage/transmission/everything and forget about it? Why remove and replace the transmission? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something here.

Anyway, the last 2 times I've checked it personally, neither I nor the mechanics/shop manager could find the source of the leaks and it's been parked in a center-city Philadelphia high-rise garage since.

A good cleaning should help find the source, sure, but wiping alone wasn't enough. It seems like there's usually no fluid loss unless it's under a big load. Though just a time or two, I have found some fluid under the car. Strangely, as for now, that stopped happening, for nor apparent reason, and I know the fluid level isn't very low presently...

I'm playing phone tag with the only other regional shop I've found that seems credible while Tillman Motorcars (The decent shop that had added 3 quarts just days before that) can't get me in until next week and had already advised me to talk to Mastertech, which I have.

I'm glad to hear that it may just be a cracked reservoir tank and if that's confirmed, will consider the options. Tillman Motorcars should be willing/easily capable of that job, though I am tempted to just do it myself now that I clarified that it can be done with what I currently have. (jack-stands & liftbars) It'll probably come down to who can do it the soonest, and any shop will have to be Rennlist-approved of course. lol If nobody can get me in for weeks, I'll do it myself.

I'd prefer to get it in to a qualified shop locally, ASAP, but still don't have an appointment anywhere.

Anything beyond that sort of simple job though and the car absolutely goes to Mastertech.

It was a recent enough rebuild, and we know they're freaking awesome. Sure, it may have been ever so slightly overfilled, but when I remembered that kid and his channel-locks, it got me thinking. I was hoping to hear that this may prove to be the problem. Fingers have been permanently crossed for days now...

It's been a pretty intense week for me in general, by the way. One of my dogs is going in for surgery Monday morning. Like all future mechanics, my vet is well-researched one of the best there is. Still though...

Intuitively, especially after all the research/help from Rennlist, I don't think my transmission is toast just yet. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but even if I'm wrong, I'm comfortable knowing that Mastertech can take care of it. Hell, if it is, perhaps I'll burn up some more money and have LSD retrofitted if it's in for another rebuild.

I long ago learned not to risk my car/sanity with questionable shops. To get it back on the road after the coils went, I did all of the work myself, flawlessly. I just didn't think that having a "normal" shop add the fluid I lost with the new radiator installation was ANYTHING to worry about.

You know, I'm fairly certain I must have really pissed off some gypsy or something. Maybe I plowed through some cows in a past life, racing around India in a 550 Spyder so karma's now F'ng with me??? I don't know but I've got to admit, I feel a bit cursed with stuff like this happening to me. All was probably perfect and the car just needed a quart or so of fluid properly added.

No real worries about the car though. It's looking like a simple fix, and if not, I'm fine with whatever Mastertech prescribes. I just dread the idea of it being back off the road for a while. Fixing/buying something cool meanwhile's just not an option. I'll probably be sentenced to a month or two of a rent-a-wreck or something if the S4 needs serious work again and after briefly, FINALLY, having my 928 on the road, that's really quite the weenie-shrinker. I love this car... :-(

I really do appreciate all the comments and advice. Thank you to all... :-)