trialattorney

Anyone using (or have used) an engine managemetn system on their 928 similar to that being sold by 928 Motorsports? If so, what did, or are, you using and what issues did you have in getting it to work?

Lizard928

Every EMS has its own quirks, each one you might run into a different issue with different components used.

I have used VEMS, and MegaSquirt II.
If you use the stock reference sensor, you need to include a 1k ohm resistor in the + output from the sensor. Its voltage output is too high for EMS systems.
if you use Cayenne COP units, they are very sensitive to the signal voltage, and amperage within that signal.
I strongly recommend a MAP based system, w/ a proper TPS.
If you use EDIS-8 (easiest in my experience), then it should be easy.

Personally I recommend building the harness yourself, but have someone who has used the system you are using to help you go over the settings to help you get it running.
The hardest part is getting it running. Once running, it is easy.

There is a VERY steep learning curve going down this road.

FLYVMO

Les,

I used an Electromotive TEC3r on my 86.5. It worked very well, but be prepared to spend significant time fine tuning if you are doing the tuning your self. Highly suggest having someone ride with you to tune while you drive.

Some of the issues I had:
-finding a dyno shop familiar with the software (Jacksonville FL) finally had to drive 4 hours to Lakeland to get it fine tuned on the dyno.

- getting the sequential injection working....it did not like the hall effect sensor that Porsche uses for the cam timing (had an '88 cam sensor and cam timing wheel on my 86.5). Had to go with the manufacturers hall sensor and cam timing wheel and a custom attachment on the camshaft.

- overheating of the ECU box...was resolved by the manufacturer so I expect it to not be an issue anymore

- took a long time to get it to play nice with the idle control motor...issues were surging idle...solved after a vacuum leak was fixed.

- Had to manufacture a 60-2 tooth crank timing wheel for the crank position sensor to work. That will only be an issue on '86 and earlier cars. From '87 on Porsche uses the same number of teeth on the flywheel.

Once it was tuned properly, the car was a screamer...dynoed at 271rwhp which is about 310 at the crank. Factory HP from Porsche is 288 on the 86.5. Fuel consumption was less as well, maybe gained 2 or 3 mpg. As long as the fun pedal was pushed gently...

Cheers!
Carl

tveltman

I am currently using the TecGT system. Its easy to install, though you may have some trouble with throttle position sensors. I had a hell of a time getting it to work, but I talked to Carl about it and he said that there may have been confusion because they recently switched distributors. At any rate, I was able to get it to work, and I am quite happy with the system.

The issues I had in getting it to work were 100% user error. The instruction booklet that Carl sends needs to be read VERY CAREFULLY. The important thing is not to be guided by the wiring colors in the CE panel, as these apparently differ from year to year, but rather by the pinouts. Make sure you are connecting to the right wire on the harness. I made a couple of bonehead errors like this that took me a while to straighten out. The only other thing I can say is make sure you get a good crimper and solder the crank position sensor terminals, because a failure there results in flatbedding the car home.

If you hook it up right from the start, it's tremendously easy to use, and supports native wideband O2 (but does need a wideband controller). My innovate LC-1 hooked right up to it, and I can get the AFR right off of the virtual instrument panel on a laptop. The tuning software has a ton of enrichments for engine temperature, load, acceleration, etc, and the initial tune is very straightforward to use, once you get past a couple slight software glitches.

It does have an autotune feature, but I have not figured out how to use this, I just have my girlfriend in the passenger seat with a laptop.

The final thing I will say is that I am not a tuning wizard or anything close to it, but I've gotten the tune to work out okay. It is very user friendly, but it would appear that my engine at least requires more fuel than I would have otherwise expected. I put on 24# injectors, and although I made some slight modifications (intake manifold spacers, X-pipe, custom fuel lines, Carl's fuel rails), I can't believe that they dramatically increase the fueling requirements of the engine. This may also be user error, or it may just be that my fuel supply line is too small (I replaced the whole main supply line while I was doing the fuel rails), although I doubt it since the ID of the tubing is larger than some of the narrow piping in between the old fuel system.

Either way, if you can afford it, and are already planning an intake refresh, etc, iinstalling Carl's system is a great option, and leads to tremendous flexibility later on down the road in terms of performance modifications, especially for turbo applications, which is one reason I decided to go with it, although for me it made the most sense since I lost my entire ignition and fuel system (except for the brains) in a fire.

Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you have any other questions

john gill

I use the adaptronics e1280 ecu , full sequential , traction control flat change etc, see www.adaptronic.com.au or my link on my signature .CUrrently running the GT in the local club champoinships for fun while building my club car .
I cannot reccommend this ecu more highly for the price , the only one that comes close to it is the Motec which is fantastic but a hell of a lot more expensive .
THe adaptronic has the added feature of being configurable , I can write my own logic without the need for a firmeware upgrade , and then save the configuration , incredibly easy to do .
THe car is perfroming brilliantly in the club derby and I am having a hell of a lot of fun throwing a road car seriously around a race track, and then driving home in comfort with the climate control on .
Oh and all the dash features in the stock car work perfectly , along with it being more reliable as I have deleted the MAF and are running MAP .

Ducman82

im interested in doing this as well. i would like to upgrade my ignition system on my OB. but i am not a tuner either, but i do like upgrading. i plan on doing some kind of Engine management system when i build my 5.0 hybrid. but the only "kit" i can really find is Carls.

tveltman

Carl's also uses MAP/MAT, and is plug-and-play. Tuning is always the hard part, and I have no experience with any other software, but I got a base tune in an hours worth of work, and the car is driveable. I'm still working on high load conditions. Depending on your area, there may be tuners with electromotive tuning experience. For me, there is one in Mountain View who works on the Mustang Ranch Dynojet, but I haven't taken the car over to him, and won't until Ive done most of the basic work on the map.

928mac

I am in the middle of installing the Tec-GT engine management system that 928MS resells with mods for the 928

found here
http://www.distributorless.com/products/tecgt.php

here are some pictures on how my install is going

How the kit looks when it arrives




The new TPS which I had to mod to fit


The MAT sensor


The fuel rail which needs to be carefully installed to eliminate injector creep, fuel leak, and fire. [Sorry Gauge is mine]



I sorted the harness wires


New Tec-GT ECM in place and wire through the fire wall


and hanging over the fender waiting for me to finish it

Ducman82

i think you meant "Eliminate"

928mac

Thanks Man, corrected

Ducman82

how does the wiring seem to be for that kit Brad? as in, is it fairly simple?

m42racer

Check out the thread "early dyno results" for another really good alternative. This one uses all stock triggering, sensors and any type of Ignition can be used. This system has become popular with the 944 and 968 crowd and is supplied with a fully terminate plug and play harness. PM me for name and contact if you are interested.

928mac

I haven't had any trouble at all yet, but I am far from done.

There is NO loom suplied with the kit
I thought this strange and was a little Peesed.

Oh there was one issue so far where I had to widen the TPS holes out a 32 because the machine screws will not start and may cross thread (Quality control)

Remember that I am a mechanic.
If I was not it would be much harder and it may not be posible without major help and frustration.

The harness has a good ecm connector.
all new (factory ~) terminals and connectors come with the kit.

I have not installed and engine terminals or connectors yet as I am not that far along in my upgrading yet.

Nothing worse then having to fix new parts, it just errks me

Mongo

Still looking to do a TecGT later on for my '87 too. It's just a matter of saving. I also want to buy a small laptop where I can just stow it under the glove box (or even fab something up in the glovebox to slide it out and tune when needed.)

928mac

I would not say it is simple, but that depends on your skill level.

I have found some problems.

The plugs (nutserts) that hold the coils I have replaced after I broke 2 of the ones that came with the kit (not a big deal)

The coil wires for the drivers side are 6 inch short (ill solder on some more wire)

I had to ream out the screw holes for the MAP so it would screw to the adaptor plate.

IMO The kit should have 3 more connectors so I cut them out of the old harness and soldered them onto the respective wires.

The description for hooking up the TPS is vague and incomplete (IMO) but the CD explains the test so that you can figure out which of the 3 wires go where.

If I saw the other engine control kits I would be able to make a better comparison.

Brad