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87 5spd OMG! - It's happening again - Update 5 Condensation test

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Old 04-01-2011, 10:59 PM
  #16  
cpayne
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Originally Posted by JoeTaylor
I have worked with high voltage (electrostatic separators) and when I read your post, the first thing that came to mind was - moisture.

All plastics absorb moisture from the humidity in the air to some extent or another. Some plastics are more hydroscopic than others

In my former business, we were very familiar with the phenomena here in humid Florida. The mantra is "tempurature cures all".

Once the ignition wire(s) heat up, the surface moisture on the insulation starts to dry off. So when the engine is hot, the heat of the engine drives off and keeps away the surface moisture.

Next day, after the engine cools overnight, the moisture from the air absorbs again into the insulation.

The way to check this is to use a hair dryer and dry off all the wires while the engine is cold first thing in the morning. The wire insulation should get hot enough you can feel it with you fingers... but not too hot. Then try cranking up your engine.

If the problem goes away... haha, blame it on the dew and humidity.

Joe
I felt as though this may be the issue as well. I think I may try that one morning easy enough to do.
Old 04-01-2011, 11:02 PM
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cpayne
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Originally Posted by AO
Have you pulled your spark plugs and looked at them?

When it's running like crap, shut off the engine, and pull the plugs. You should be able to tell which cylinders are the culprit and narrow it down. If it's all 4, it's either the cap, rotor, coil, or final stage (the thing that's at the very front of the engine on the driver side).

If it's just one or two plugs, then it's further back (although the cap and rotor could still be suspect).
I hanv;t pulled the plugs. I thought if it were the plugs it would not clear up and be so consistent while at operating temp. It feels like only one or two cylnders
Old 04-01-2011, 11:21 PM
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Landseer
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When this car is running well, its a beast.

A 5spd S4 represents a whole, big rung up on the ladder from most of the other 928s I've driven.
Old 04-01-2011, 11:22 PM
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the flyin' scotsman
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Read Dwaynes intake R&R.....he came up with a tool thats used to pressurise the intake system to detect leaks.....have fun.
Old 04-02-2011, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by WallyP
The Temp II Sensor may be faulty. On the top of the engine, near the front just off of center, there is a sensor screwed into the engine, with two wires in the harness. There are two identical temperature sensors, one for the ignition and one for the injection. Check the resistance of each pin to ground not from pin-to-pin. The resistance at specified engine temps should be:
32 deg F - 4.4 to 6.8 kOhms
60 to 85 deg F - 1.4 to 3.6 kOhms
104 deg F - 0.9 to 1.3 kOhms
140 deg F - 480 to 720 Ohms
176 deg F - 250 to 390 Ohms

Thanks Wally . I'll try it some time next week with the other suggestions. I have military duty this weekend and wont be near the tools until next week.
Old 04-02-2011, 11:20 PM
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cpayne
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Originally Posted by the flyin' scotsman
Read Dwaynes intake R&R.....he came up with a tool thats used to pressurise the intake system to detect leaks.....have fun.
Yep I have all those marked. looks like a trip to HD plumbing section
Old 04-02-2011, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fraggle
How new are the plug wires? Based on the moisture/high voltage experience input, maybe a set on the way out is more susceptible. You just moved the problem from the coil wire up to the sparkplug wires.
They are are older.I have set I'm going to put on when I pull the plugs and check them out.
Old 04-03-2011, 12:25 AM
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Charles, I have the intake pressure test tool you can use.
Old 04-03-2011, 09:12 PM
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After arriving home from training. It was very nice all day here.
I thought this would be a great time to test the moisture theory. Started it up. Let the temp gauge start moving as normal. Car didn't exhibit any symptoms of rough running at all. mornings where it was colder raining produce the rough running condition. I don't know if this is conclusive or not. I'm going to try again tomorrow. I don't now if this is related but when I let my foot off the gas in any gear as the car slows it jerks almost feels like its cutting out rapidly, almost like a down shift or when your going slow in a parking lot in a 1st gear ((Manual) and reach a point when you have to press the clutch or the car bucks. At least mine does.

Thanks
Old 04-03-2011, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cpayne
After arriving home from training. It was very nice all day here.
I thought this would be a great time to test the moisture theory. Started it up. Let the temp gauge start moving as normal. Car didn't exhibit any symptoms of rough running at all. mornings where it was colder raining produce the rough running condition. I don't know if this is conclusive or not. I'm going to try again tomorrow. I don't now if this is related but when I let my foot off the gas in any gear as the car slows it jerks almost feels like its cutting out rapidly, almost like a down shift or when your going slow in a parking lot in a 1st gear ((Manual) and reach a point when you have to press the clutch or the car bucks. At least mine does.

Thanks
Charles,
What is the moisture theory? In particular, what does it point to?
Old 04-03-2011, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jadz928
Charles,
What is the moisture theory? In particular, what does it point to?
See post #16
Old 04-03-2011, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cpayne
See post #16
Oh I see. So how was your test conclusive?
I'm not a scientist, but wouldn't it be more conclusive to perform the test when the problem occurs?
Old 04-03-2011, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Jadz928
Charles, I have the intake pressure test tool you can use.
Wow thanks Jim. I may snag it once I rule out the little stuff. Thanks
Old 04-03-2011, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cpayne
Yep I have all those marked. looks like a trip to HD plumbing section
Harley does plumbing now?......wow,knew times were getting tough but.....
Old 04-03-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jadz928
Oh I see. So how was your test conclusive?
I'm not a scientist, but wouldn't it be more conclusive to perform the test when the problem occurs?
Jim this is highly scientific stuff I'm doing here, this ain't no dang backyard renchin. Some of the tests I'm doing here require 1.21 Jigawatts to charge the flux capacitor. Yes you read that correctly 1.21 Jigawatts.

Charting the weather the last week and recounting the times the car ran poorly the weather was rainy or cold. Today was not such a day and it didn't exhibit the problem.


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