Jakkq

Haha yeah I noticed that after dr bob's post. Don't know why the hell I would have been thinking tachometer, but yes, I'm referring to the Voltmeter.

In any case, I'm wondering if there might be a hole or opening somewhere above, possibly where water and moisture might be getting through? It looks to me that is what could be the culprit of the corrosion?

dr bob

Corrosion is one thing that will cause problems with getting current to move around. But you report that the car starts, then dies, then the battery goes dead. Not something you would blame on a poor ground.

Got a good voltmeter yet?

Bill Ball

If the idle drops then the voltage output will drop. However, if you are holding the RPMs up above idle and the voltage falls and then the car stalls, that would point more to the alternator.

Still with all that corrosion, all the grounds should be checked. There is a drain on the engine side of the firewall on the passenger side, more visible from under the car, that allows rain water to drain. If it is plugged with leaves, the water will fill the cowl and flow into the passenger fotwell. Also, if the ventilation blower motor seal is bad, water can enter there.

Jakkq

This was before I replaced the (negative) Ground Strap. I had also put in a new battery. I was just driving the car yesterday. I took it around quite a few times for about 10 minutes, and everything held up fine. It isn't until I stop the car, or park it, that you begin to notice power loss after a little while.

When I am in neutral and accelerate, everything stays firm, but eventually after hitting the accelerator a few more times, you begin to notice significant power loss. It doesn't take much either, just a light tap over 2k RPM, and let go, you hear the car lose power, and the voltmeter drops. Like I mentioned above, I took the car out a few times, and no problems, especially when I was accelerating.

dr bob

My point is that 'power loss' means you have a path for current to flow to ground someplace in the car. So the alternator and battery can now keep up with the normal current needed to run the car, plus the current you have leaking someplace in the car. When you stop the engine, the normal current paths for things like fuel pump, ignition/injection/lights/fans, all stop. But you still have a leak someplace that you need to find and fix. -- Corrosion on a ground connection will not cause current to leak. -- In fact, a corroded terminal adds resistance, therefore reducing the ability to flow current through the corroded junction.

There are more than a few threads focused on chasing spurious current leaks. My simple starting point involves using a small light bulb pigtailed to a blown fuse. I can insert the fuse in the CE panel fuseholder, and any circuit that has a path for current flowing through the fuseholder will light the lamp. If the path is not obvious that way, I use a multimeter set to DC volts to find the path, then switch the meter to measure current to see how big the flow (leak) is.

Another method shared here by others involves reading the voltage drop across each fuse in the CE panel with a good meter. You can pull the fuse and measure the resistance through it. Put the fuse back in, and calculate how much current is flowing based on that voltage drop. These are simple DC circuits, so Ohm's Law applies directly.

Lots of options on method, but most all point back to using a multi-meter to ID the stray current path. It doesn't take a real expensive tool to do this. The better meters are more forgiving of mistakes, and auto-ranging is a great feature that saves you the trouble of turning a **** to get the most precise reading available.

FWIW, a cheapo Harbor Freight digital multimeter (around $4 on sale) lives in the travelling toolkit in my car. I've tested it a few times, mostly to make sure the battery in the meter itself isn't dead, but so far have never needed it for a live patient on the road. That meter, a kit of spare fuses, a set of mini jumper cables, spare relays and a few light bulbs, sit with a mini pocket toolkit in a small canvas bag in the boot. With the factory toolkit, they do pretty much everything I'd ever plan to do on the side of the road. In my 14 years of 928 ownership, only the mini-kit screwdriver has been used to tighten a hose clamp. The rest of the tools are pretty much virgin.

Jakkq

Okay guys, it has been awhile, but I have had some good time today to work on things.

I cleaned up the Fuse Relay Board, and changed out all the Fuses with new ones. I replaced the Board after cleaning up the other ground wirres to the best of my ability, and added some good coats of Electric Cleaner to everything.

I am happy to say that EVERY single electric and light now work- EXCEPT for the Window Switches, and the Headlights?

My power results have increased as well. I added some battery terminal protectants, some corrosive preventative, and cleaned the battery terminals, and a cut off switch as well. The car starts up every single time now! I am still getting power drop though. I haven't had time to go through any of the other ground points on the vehicle. Just only got around to the Fuse Relay Board stuff.

When I first started the car up today, I got A LOT of white smoke from the exhaust. What could this be from?

SteveG

That should be another thread. Not that it's in there, but you might want to read the New Visitor thread. Lots of good suggestions and information and links.

Alan

If when you refer to "power loss" you mean the voltage dropping please be specific and say that - it will help us - when I read power loss - I start out assuming you mean engine power (e.g. HP) loss.

In fact as I re-read the above I still think you are talking about both HP & voltage dropping off.

Assuming you mean a voltage drop issue - then unless there are still serious connection issues - (seems less likely at this point since it seems it reliably starts OK) then its most likely you have do issues with the alternator - I'd take it out and have it bench tested then refurbed or replaced.

If the Alt checks out OK then you must have an issue with connectivity - I'd focus in on the 14 pin connector area first...

One quick check does the warning light for the alternator come on with the ignition turned on but car not started (bulb check mode) it should... if it doesn't then you probably have an exciter circuit open - again most likely at the Alt or 14 pin connector.

Do spend some time thinking about how what you post will be digested by others... this thread has taken much longer to get to this point than needed because of the vague & confusing desriptions

Alan

Jakkq

I'll post up a video of what is going on. It's a little hard for me to describe in words, because there are several things going on at once, which you will be able to hear and notice in a video. I'll post it up in a bit, and provide the best description I can of what is going on.

dr bob

Got a good meter yet?

If So, WHAT IS THE BATTERY TERMINAL VOLTAGE, MEASURED WITH THAT GOOD METER, WHEN YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THE "POWER LOSS"?

We often chase symptoms thinking they are problems. Good troubleshooting is a very methodical process, aimed at identifying the causes based on the symptoms. In this case, is the loss of available engine load and speed cauing the system voltage to go down as the alternator spins more slowly, or is voltage loss in the system the cause of the engine load capacity?

The battery should be able to carry the car's load for quite a while without the alternator working. Much longer than what you seem to be vaguely describing. A good working volt meter, connected to the battery terminals, will tell us a lot about what's cause and what's egffect. Got that meter yet? Know how to use it to read DC voltage?

SteveG

Hint: I don't think I've ever seen Dr. Bob yell.

Jakkq

I have only had a little bit of time to try a few things. I have not been able to get to everything that's suggested. All I got done before was cleaning up the Relay Board really good, and the ground spots, and I replaced the Fuses. This has helped a lot.

All of my electrics work, and the car starts up every single time I attempt to fire it up, and it fires up clean and easy. Was getting a lot of white smoke at first, but I turned out to have no coolant, so that fixed that.

On another note, even just having driven up the street and back, I have a very odd smell. It smells like burning, and something else. Oil has not been changed since I got the car, but once I get my Oil Filter in the mail, I am going to change out the oil


The meter I have is a Equus 3320 Auto-Ranging Digital Multimeter.

I got 12.61 while the car was turned off and sitting.
I fired it up and went back to check it again which read 14.01. I gave it a minute and checked it again, this time reading 13.35.

I have not let it sit for long because of the burning smell I am getting. The engine is heating up real fast after only a few revvs, and at this point my power loss only happens after driving the vehicle, which I do not want to do with a burning smell conducting. I am not losing Horsepower like I was before cleaning the Fuse Board and grounds. Just put coolant in yesterday, which solved the white smoke coming from the exhaust.

Bill Ball

I would call this normal unless the voltage falls further.

This does not sound normal. Is the coolant temp overheating? Very rapid engine heating usually is caused by a bad water pump not circulating coolant.

Jakkq

I played around with it a bit more today. I let the car sit idle longer this time. I did not notice it heat up right away like before. The burning smell I am getting is coming directly from the Intake Manifold. This obviously gets hot, but it should not be giving off a burning smell should it? I cleaned up the Intake Manifold good, but the burning smell still persists. All of the runners have been cleaned, too.noticed what could be oil on the bottom of each of the runners. I put my nose directly up to everything, and the Manifold itself does not seem to smell of burning, but the runners themselves.

I also have some liquids spitting from the exhaust.

After about 3 minutes, you could hear it losing a bit of power. I checked the battery and it read 12.58, having dropped from 14.00+ when I usually start it up, to 12.58.

I felt the Upper Radiator Hose after awhile to see if it was heating up at all. It was staying rather cool, but the engine was not getting really hot like before. I did not leave it on much longer because I could hear a shaky squeaky noise coming from below. Possibly Water Pump front bearing? I will investigate more tomorrow when it's nice and sunny out.

Jakkq

Holy ****. I just realized I may have a blown headgasket.... It would explain the power loss I seem to be getting, the heating, the white smoke and liquid from the exhaust (radiator fluid?). I will check when I get home from work tomorrow. With my luck this is what I may have.