I'm currently reforming the rear inside quarter panels (leather covered) of my '88 S4.

In researching techniques I came across this comment from Jerry Feather:I'd like to reform the panels back to the original position and then extend them with extra material to fill the gap that Jerry mentions.

Could someone who has an original, undistorted panel in place please let me know what the sill gap measures along the length of the window?

Thanks!

 

The very early panels - 78-79 were plastic and do not deform. You might one to get a pair to use as a basis for a pattern.

 

You have ruined my day! My interior is all white leather, except the floors and door bottoms are black carpet. Until just now I have never been conscious of having a gap there, but I have noticed the gap in other cars. Now that I look at mine, there is a gap almost all the way along the outer edge, and it feels pretty constant - I can easily run a finger the whole length. Perhaps widest at the middle of the run along the quarter window - to the rubber of the window seal, a good inch. If you wanted to run the edge UNDER the window rubber, you would need 1 1/4".
The reason I have never noticed my gap is the black of the quarter window rubber merges with the darkness in the gap, and your eye is drawn to the white leather, and the gap sort of isnt obvious.
FWIW, when I got mine the interior was pretty tired especially where the seat belt tang had broken the surface on the front edge of the rear quarter.(41k mi, in 2001, 8 years UK, 10 years Saudi). I had the seats recovered (white leather aint easy to find!, $A2k), and then the wheel, and then looked at the rest of the leather. I found a guy who specializes in leather work (father started the business in 1948), he refurbed the whole interior, including R&R the rear quarters, for $A4k, and I am very happy with the whole car now - unless you knew where to look, you wouldnt know where he done his magic.
I was told the rear quarters could consume a whole hide by themselves. What sort of budget are you looking at?
HTH
jp 83 Euro S AT 53k.

 

Are the gaps there by design, as part of the ventilation system?

 

Thanks Dan - I wasn't aware the early ones are plastic. It does make you wonder why P moved away from that. The small over-panel at the base are plastic in mine. There are several areas on the backside where they reinforced the panel with riveted, double layers of the panel material or overlain fiberglass. I wouldn't be surprised if these reinforcements came later in the use of the panel in response to issues.

I reformed my panels by squeezing them between metal plate, then applying serious heat and pressure. They hold their original shape now, but I have reinforced them with stainless steel plate adhered and riveted to the backside.

 

I wondered about that Wally, but to be really effective they would need an inlet down low - which I don't see. And its a really big gap. A vent in the panel might have been a more typical approach

I don't recall such a gap in my old 944 and the basic design hatch design is similar. That said there is a layer of leather applied to the metal below the side window, so it was expected that the gap be visible.

From a design perspective the gap does give a sense of depth to the window. It also allows some panel movement in response to leather shrinkage and temperature changes. Maybe P expected issues there, not just as much as actually occurred.

All speculation...

As regards mine, I will likely be at least reducing it to deal with creasing to the original leather that I'm trying to restore.

 

Sorry jpitman2 - hope you day is now restored

My budget is limited at the moment by my desire to see what I can do to restore this car through refurbishment instead of replacement. Since the whole car was only $4.5k it doesn't make good fiscal sense to spend too much on it, and frankly I'm enjoying the challenge. It would certainly be easier, but not cheaper, to order new parts (when available) or send it out to a professional. For me this car is mostly a learning experience. If I stay with 928s, as I expect, I will likely swap it at some time for an example in better original condition and on which someone else has spent the big money already

 

You mean like this?

 

I always assumed the gaps for ventilation, but the picture is telling. Thanks for posting. Can I put it on my web site?

 

I'm not the copyright holder and I don't remember where I came across it, could have been right here on Rennlist. No worries from me.

 

Thanks for the picture Jarrod. I had not seen it. On the other hand, it doesn't actually show air going down the side widow vents imho. Rather it seems to me to show air circulating through the car cabin. I can't find any other open points (entrance or exit) to air in the panel. Further under the gap is yellow foam, rather than a duct as you would expect. While mine was pretty filthy there it doesn't look like it was a conduit for air circulation over 23 years fwiw.

 

Martin,
Fully recovered, thanks. I am not very handy with interior stuff, and the potential improvement of doing it properly was too high for me to ignore, so I am not unhappy with the result for the $. At the price you have paid, you seem to approaching the car from the right perspective, and your longer term 928 ownership. FWIW, I believe my car is the white one on P110 of the brian long 928 book - and Mr Long agrees with me, so it needs to look as good as I can afford, IMHO.
jp 83 Euro S AT 53k

 

I don't know if it's functional or not, and agree the image is inconclusive. I suppose you could have someone do a smoke test while underway and look for airflow.

 

Hi Martin.

I think someone has given you the answer you are asking for on here, but I don't think it will help you, probably at all. The gap varies in width, as I recall, and it may be different form side to side and even from car to car, especially given the age of these components and their temdency to deform, which might be more than just curling up.

What I will expect do do when I do this again, as I suggested, is take the quarter panel trim pieces out of the car and strip them of cover and padding, then perform whatever I have in mind to take the curl out of them, both along the window sill area and possibley along the bottom, where my first set for restoration was also deformed.

Then I would place them back in the car and take some little strips of wood or plastic and glue them along the window edge sort of like a picket fence by placing each one on top of the trim panel and the outer edge or end placed out against the window or window moulding, whatever is there. When the glue sets I would take the trim panels out and then build up the outer edges out to the glued on pieces with whatever I intended to widen the panels with. Then I would grind the picket fence off and cover the panels with scrim and then leather or vinyl or whatever you have in mind.

By the way, if you are doing the whole interior over and using leather, but have a tight budget like most of us you might consider a combination of leather and vinyl as provided by Keyston Bros. They have a great system of leather and vinyl that they call Partners in which the color match is exact and the vinyl is difficult to tell from the leather. Putting vinyl on these quarter panels might save the leather and some cost. I think the panels can be covered with a little over half a hide if you use leather, and the hide should be about $150 unless someone is marking it up.

My trim guy and I covered everything in my S4 with leather, including a lot of stuff that wasn't covered with it before, and we used up 4 and a half hides. That didn't include the dash or pod or the front center console or arm rests on the doors; but it did include a lot of things like the rear seat back backs, the door sills and things like that.

Hope this helps. Jerry Feather