New Porsche 918
01-15-2011, 10:23 AM
#62
Drifting
Hydrogen is just not efficient, you have to make it. It's like the bad joke that ethanol is. Ethanol raises food prices and burns a ton of energy just to make poor energy.
The goal is to get solar panel efficiency up to the point where you will power your house and car from your own panels, until then conventionally generated electricity will do and abundant natgas for truckers.
The goal is to get solar panel efficiency up to the point where you will power your house and car from your own panels, until then conventionally generated electricity will do and abundant natgas for truckers.
01-15-2011, 12:56 PM
#63
Three Wheelin'
Hydrogen actually burns more efficiently than petroleum doesn't it? Something like eight times more efficiently?
Regardless, I was thinking of that Honda hydrogen/electric car. Forgot that i that it's an electric car first though. Not solely hydrogen powered. NVM!
Regardless, I was thinking of that Honda hydrogen/electric car. Forgot that i that it's an electric car first though. Not solely hydrogen powered. NVM!
01-15-2011, 01:37 PM
#64
Drifting
Who thinks petroleum burns efficiently? Ever touch your 928 engine after a spirited drive? (not recommended!) Burning gasoline produces a large percentage of heat. That is WASTE! that heat does nothing to move you from A to B, it is all inefficiency.
I just did a google and found a statement that only 20% of the energy from gasoline combustion is mechanical energy 80% is waste in the form of heat.
We are wasting 80% of the resource currently. Burn that same fuel in a power plant to make electricity and power an electric car and you are using your resources much more wisely. Throw in regenerative braking to capture that energy instead of wasting it as heat too. Burning Nat Gas to generate electricity is 60% efficient. Throw in the other costs of oil - refining, distribution and electric cars are 400% more efficient than internal combustion.
I just did a google and found a statement that only 20% of the energy from gasoline combustion is mechanical energy 80% is waste in the form of heat.
We are wasting 80% of the resource currently. Burn that same fuel in a power plant to make electricity and power an electric car and you are using your resources much more wisely. Throw in regenerative braking to capture that energy instead of wasting it as heat too. Burning Nat Gas to generate electricity is 60% efficient. Throw in the other costs of oil - refining, distribution and electric cars are 400% more efficient than internal combustion.
01-15-2011, 01:59 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
IC engines are "HEAT" engines. it doesnt matter the fuel, they will waste a lot of energy by design. the point remains, there is such a HUGE energy density with gasoline, vs batteries, and thats the point. even if you burn oil and gas to make electricity, these are inefficient devices as well.
Hydrogen has been used on passenger busses for many years. (for fuel cell power) they have a safe way to contain it in cars but as someone mentioned, Hydrogen is expensive and energy consuming to make.
I think the anwer truely is the hybrid, but a real hybrid, where you get the best of both. only electric power under inefficient use times where the gas engine would be used. (i.e. cruise, traffic, slow speed, etc). Then, when you need it, it is used for performance.
Hydrogen has been used on passenger busses for many years. (for fuel cell power) they have a safe way to contain it in cars but as someone mentioned, Hydrogen is expensive and energy consuming to make.
I think the anwer truely is the hybrid, but a real hybrid, where you get the best of both. only electric power under inefficient use times where the gas engine would be used. (i.e. cruise, traffic, slow speed, etc). Then, when you need it, it is used for performance.
Who thinks petroleum burns efficiently? Ever touch your 928 engine after a spirited drive? (not recommended!) Burning gasoline produces a large percentage of heat. That is WASTE! that heat does nothing to move you from A to B, it is all inefficiency.
I just did a google and found a statement that only 20% of the energy from gasoline combustion is mechanical energy 80% is waste in the form of heat.
We are wasting 80% of the resource currently. Burn that same fuel in a power plant to make electricity and power an electric car and you are using your resources much more wisely. Throw in regenerative braking to capture that energy instead of wasting it as heat too. Burning Nat Gas to generate electricity is 60% efficient. Throw in the other costs of oil - refining, distribution and electric cars are 400% more efficient than internal combustion.
I just did a google and found a statement that only 20% of the energy from gasoline combustion is mechanical energy 80% is waste in the form of heat.
We are wasting 80% of the resource currently. Burn that same fuel in a power plant to make electricity and power an electric car and you are using your resources much more wisely. Throw in regenerative braking to capture that energy instead of wasting it as heat too. Burning Nat Gas to generate electricity is 60% efficient. Throw in the other costs of oil - refining, distribution and electric cars are 400% more efficient than internal combustion.
01-15-2011, 02:12 PM
#66
Drifting
That is THE POINT
the difference being power plants use the heat to boil water to generate steam to turn the turbineblades and in the car the heat goes out the tailpipe or into the coolant.
Wait 10 years and electric cars will kick *** on performance too. (not what I am interested in then for)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JkMCzjTVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ukLgsGEzs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G32E4li3xHI
01-15-2011, 03:59 PM
#68
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I spoke yesterday with a noted car enthusiast with a garage full of interesting cars Carrera GT etc. His latest ride is a Volt...yup GM Volt. he LOVES it has yet to have the gas engine engage just plugs in at home and at the warehouse has not driven any of his other cars since he got it....I asked his opinion of Tesla....it was not positive 
01-15-2011, 05:10 PM
#69
Drifting
I spoke yesterday with a noted car enthusiast with a garage full of interesting cars Carrera GT etc. His latest ride is a Volt...yup GM Volt. he LOVES it has yet to have the gas engine engage just plugs in at home and at the warehouse has not driven any of his other cars since he got it....
I asked his opinion of Tesla....it was not positive
I asked his opinion of Tesla....it was not positive
As to the sedan;
Since he hasn't driven a Tesla sedan as only company people and buyers have, his opinion ain't worth much on that score. To my eyes it is 1 of the top 3 sedan designs on the scene along with the rapide and fisker. Is his problem with the sedans looks or some envy of Mr. Musk? Since he hasn't used the gas engine yet on the volt and the Tesla will have 700% more all electric range, it shouldn't be distance.
As to the company/man;
How can anyone not admire a guy who is creating a whole new industry that will employ thousands of californians to start, get this country and others off oil, and is doing it from scratch with a tiny team showing detroit how to work efficiently. Phucking amazing considering he was filthy rich before starting this endeavor.
As to the Volt, I watched this a few weeks back and enjoyed it very much
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbiRLWpDF2k
01-15-2011, 05:32 PM
#70
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I spoke yesterday with a noted car enthusiast with a garage full of interesting cars Carrera GT etc. His latest ride is a Volt...yup GM Volt. he LOVES it has yet to have the gas engine engage just plugs in at home and at the warehouse has not driven any of his other cars since he got it....I asked his opinion of Tesla....it was not positive
Rich
01-15-2011, 06:45 PM
#71
Drifting
If it is Leno, he gives everybody else a different impression here
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/...adster/229378/
He seemed to enjoy it.
My interest is in the sedan not the roadster. I can find no mention of Jay and the model S. Maybe he's mad that Musk debuted the sedan on Letterman.
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/...adster/229378/
He seemed to enjoy it.
My interest is in the sedan not the roadster. I can find no mention of Jay and the model S. Maybe he's mad that Musk debuted the sedan on Letterman.
01-15-2011, 07:10 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
James, that is one of the concerns of the hybrid. If that engine is never running, that could bring it's set of problems when he needs it to.
Last edited by robot808; 01-15-2011 at 09:22 PM.
01-15-2011, 09:16 PM
#73
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Fisker is another very interesting story.....and I do know someone on the inside. You might want to research this one a bit...."Phucking amazing considering he was filthy rich before starting this endeavor. " key word is WAS ! A number of poor investments and a pending divorce has had a big impact. Also note that the majority of the proceeds from the last public stock offering was going to insiders who were selling some of their stock to the public so that money did nothing to fund the operations of a company that has yet to make a penny of profit...But they can always sell more stock and borrow more money.....
01-16-2011, 10:09 AM
#75
Drifting
Fisker is another very interesting story.....and I do know someone on the inside. You might want to research this one a bit...."Phucking amazing considering he was filthy rich before starting this endeavor. " key word is WAS ! A number of poor investments and a pending divorce has had a big impact. Also note that the majority of the proceeds from the last public stock offering was going to insiders who were selling some of their stock to the public so that money did nothing to fund the operations of a company that has yet to make a penny of profit...But they can always sell more stock and borrow more money.....
I was in on the IPO.
None of that changes the fact that he could have taken his PAYPAL hundreds of millions and gone and taken it easy. INSTEAD he INVESTED in new ideas to get America back to what it once was - a winner- TESLA, SPACEX, and SOLAR CITY.
IMO Tesla alone is a great success already, SpaceX is an amazing success, and Solar City is a great idea. As far as I can see Musk is a benevolent mix of Henry Ford and Howard Hughes. Who the hell else is creating private sector manufacturing jobs that will enhance the lives of americans besides this guy.
Your info is off and your negative attitude towards this guy is puzzling.