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Carl everything looks awesome. My question is won't the antennas lose reception being hidden underneath the rear leather-covered interior panels. I was under the impression that "line of sight" played a part, particularly on GPS/Sirius. Many of us might have looked at using sharkfin antennas but everybody said the reception was poor when the antennas were hidden/inserted in them on the roof. Why does that not apply to your location with a yet heavier barrier above?
I had to go with a GPS based speedo pulse when switching to the Z06 6-speed transmission and it had to have line of sight to the sky, so either on the dash behind the windshield or somewhere on the outside of the car. I put it between the front edge of the trunk and the convertible top where it's not too obtrusive.
While I am not an expert in antenna design, I think the reason the sharkfin style AM/FM antenna had poor reception was due to rod length, or the actual length of the physical antenna length within that modern housing. The plastic housing probably had very little with the reception issue. Modern cars really don't use the shark fin type antenna for Am/FM reception (those are embedded into glass or in body panels), but for XM/Sirius/GPS reception. A GPS antenna receives microwaves which has a different penetration level through material than a FM signal as an example.
As far as as the digital AM/FM antenna I installed, I know the reception will not be as good as the roof mounted rod antenna, but I will report back on exactly how much less when I get it hooked up. The GPS on the other hand should get plenty of signal reception as microwaves easily pass through glass, plastic and other non-metallic materials. Somewhere on my computer is a picture from a GPS antenna manufacturer showing possible recommended mounting locations for hidden installation. I will post it once I find it. It basically recommend either outside, under front or rear plastic bumper cover, under dash (if plastic, not good for the 928), or a rear parcel shelf under a plastic cover.
I am guessing I will see some slight reduction in GPS signal strength but not significantly enough to affect normal operation. The interior quarter panels have no metal in them at that location, and glass above.
I had to go with a GPS based speedo pulse when switching to the Z06 6-speed transmission and it had to have line of sight to the sky, so either on the dash behind the windshield or somewhere on the outside of the car. I put it between the front edge of the trunk and the convertible top where it's not too obtrusive.
Pete,
There should be no reason for you to have to use a GPS based speedometer as the GM transmission has a speed sensor boss on the top rear differential. You can send that signal through a Dakota Digital signal converter (see earlier post in this thread) and it will drive your stock speedometer. That way you won't suffer from speedometer lag and possible loss of signal during long tunnels, in city driving etc.
Now that Amelia Concourse d'Elegance has ended, I got some time to get things done on the car. The amplifiers I chose were Sound Ordinance M74-4 (75W RMS * 4) for the front and rear component speakers, and a Sound Ordinance M100-2 (100W RMS*2) for the two rear 6.5" subwoofers. The reason I went with these amplifiers is the best signal-to-noise ratio in the price range below $500, and internal fan cooling.
The amplifier for the front and rear component speakers is mounted inside the passenger side cover, and the subwoofer amplifier is installed in the spare wheel well. Mounting both in the passenger side cover was too tight for my taste. A super high tech heat shield (Reynolds aluminum) was installed under the amplifier to protect the cover from any excessive heat.
Next up is the remainder of the Rob Budd carpet kit.
There should be no reason for you to have to use a GPS based speedometer as the GM transmission has a speed sensor boss on the top rear differential. You can send that signal through a Dakota Digital signal converter (see earlier post in this thread) and it will drive your stock speedometer. That way you won't suffer from speedometer lag and possible loss of signal during long tunnels, in city driving etc.
Cheers!
Carl
Just saw this response when checking-in on your progress. Thanks Carl. The GPS Speedo is actually working quite well - oddly, it even works in the airport parking garage. If I have an issue with it, I'll revisit your alternate idea, but anything working, I'm pretty much leaving alone at this point while I tend to other things on the rest of the fleet and house stuff.
Another small, yet important step, I powered up the digital dash after replacing all bulbs with LEDs, as per Ed's excellent PDF.
Cheers!
Carl
Hi Carl,
How hard is it to connect up the dash gauges and warning light to the infinity system?
I'm wanting to rewire an 86 ROW with a CAN BUS type system, as you have done.
Not sure which one yet though.
Very impressed with your work.
Mike
Hi Carl,
How hard is it to connect up the dash gauges and warning light to the infinity system?
I'm wanting to rewire an 86 ROW with a CAN BUS type system, as you have done.
Not sure which one yet though.
Very impressed with your work.
Mike
Hi Mike,
As the 928 instruments can't interface directly with a CANBUS system, the gauge wiring, sensors and warning system is retained (or replaced if you want fresh new wiring). Or you can use signal conversion boxes like the likes from Dakota Digital etc. that take CANBUS information and sends it out as analog information.
The wiring itself is fairly straightforward, the time consuming part is reading the wiring diagrams to confirm where each wire goes, but basically (in case of the 86) wiring between the central warning computer and instrument cluster is retained, as is the wiring from engine sensors and speed input to the cluster/warning computer. You would need to find which wire powers (+12v, and ignition) the central warning computer and instrument cluster etc. As mine is a digital cluster and I removed the bulb warning unit, I can't give you any specific instructions for your model year, but number one is planning, followed by research and then implementation. 77Tony just started his install of the Infinitybox system in JP ('79/'80) so he might have some more specific suggestions when it comes to that model (pre-digidash). I am working on a PDF to highlight the big install issues, but it will be awhile before I can "publish" it.
Which system are you looking at? I think Eaton came out with one not too long ago in addition to Infinitybox, but I don't know how programmable Eaton's system is.
Which system are you looking at? I think Eaton came out with one not too long ago in addition to Infinitybox, but I don't know how programmable Eaton's system is.
Cheers!
Carl
A while ago, I saw a demo video from a SEMA show and I'm sure it wasn't Infinitybox but I was impressed. Things like remote control radiator fan speed adjustment etc. However, search as I have, I can't find them now.
I like what you have done and having just rewired the whole front half of an 86S as the result of a fire, there are a lot of stock things I wasn't impressed with. The idea of the CEB to put stuff in one location looks fine but it's crazy for wire length and therefore voltage drop and connector resistance.
Example, on RHD, the CEB power supply goes from the starter motor, to the alternator, up over the engine to the 'B' positive bolt, then splits into 2 wires that go out in front of the radiator, across the front of the car and right back along the inner left guard, through to the CEB. All this when the CEB is about 300-400mm above the stater motor, where the feed originates? Just track the path for the starter solenoid wire? it's like 'see how long I can make it'.
Also, I would like an LCD instrument cluster, like 'AutoMter' but I want it to fit into the 928 binnacle.
On your system, the dash pod switches only need to supply an earth signal don't they? This would lighten the load of wiring to the rear of the dash heaps wouldn't it? A local single earth, then a small return wire from each switch to the signal controller module?
I just love this whole idea as the 928 suffers from chronic wiring bloat.
big respect Carl.
Mike
On your system, the dash pod switches only need to supply an earth signal don't they? This would lighten the load of wiring to the rear of the dash heaps wouldn't it? A local single earth, then a small return wire from each switch to the signal controller module?
I just love this whole idea as the 928 suffers from chronic wiring bloat.
big respect Carl.
Mike
Hi Mike, and thanks.
The 928 switches require a few wires (and some, an inverter) to retain stock appearance because how they internally work (and internal lighting), but you are correct in the sense that they now just switch ground (earth) so it will still be less than the factory wiring and you get rid of the large gauge "high amperage" lines behind the dash. Instead you can use thin 22 gauge wiring. Same with the ignition switch, which now has no physical connection to starter or any other power draining item, and goes from numerous large gauge wires to four 22 gauge wires. So there is a huge overall reduction in total wires.
In my setup, I ran the power (with larger gauge wire) to the cabin directly from the starter point, which also branches power to the jumpstart terminal and ABS unit. The front Infinitybox power cell gets power from the jump post terminal, and the rear power cell directly from the battery.
It has extensive CAN capabilities and my ABS system also plugs into it via the BUS. So my thoughts are similar to Mike's try and reduce the wiring load and in my case if I can afford it, get rid of the CEL panel and use OBRs resettable electronic fuse and relay module.
The other feature that I am very keen on is to buy from a wreck the wiring from an Australian made car but based on the Chevrolet SS. The features I would like to transfer are the electronic hand brake. This works via cable like the 928 with an electric motor. I would use the rear wiper switch for that function and the heads up display which is now in colour.
The other feature I was curious about was how to implement the cruise control. I am using the electronic GM throttle body and thought that the same GM pedal could be adapted. I see that Dakota Digital has a module for that so cheers for that lead. I would use their converter most likely for the digital dash functions.
Just going back to the GM Can-Bus conversion. It would be interesting to see how many functions could transfer over. I am thinking about things like security features such as keyless go. It would require micro switches on the door handles so that when you slightly lift the handle, the doors would unlock. There is also the remote start on hot days. This would be possible with the automatic transmissioned cars and ones like my major project car with the Corvette 7 speed. That tranny has a gear position switch like the automatic. I think the keyless go along with automatic door locking provides some good anti car jacking anti theft measures. My car car never be insured for what it cost.
The other part of rewiring is getting rid of the CEL panel and replacing it if I can afford it with OBRs electronic fuse and relay system.
I think it is good time now to replace a lot of wiring as mine is now more than 30 years old and there is some many places that a bad connection can strike.
All the best
Greg
Originally Posted by FLYVMO
Hi Mike, and thanks.
The 928 switches require a few wires (and some, an inverter) to retain stock appearance because how they internally work (and internal lighting), but you are correct in the sense that they now just switch ground (earth) so it will still be less than the factory wiring and you get rid of the large gauge "high amperage" lines behind the dash. Instead you can use thin 22 gauge wiring. Same with the ignition switch, which now has no physical connection to starter or any other power draining item, and goes from numerous large gauge wires to four 22 gauge wires. So there is a huge overall reduction in total wires.
In my setup, I ran the power (with larger gauge wire) to the cabin directly from the starter point, which also branches power to the jumpstart terminal and ABS unit. The front Infinitybox power cell gets power from the jump post terminal, and the rear power cell directly from the battery.
In my setup, I ran the power (with larger gauge wire) to the cabin directly from the starter point, which also branches power to the jumpstart terminal and ABS unit. The front Infinitybox power cell gets power from the jump post terminal, and the rear power cell directly from the battery.
Cheers!
Carl
Carl & Greg,
I'm wondering if I want the jump start post [B+] where it is if I'm rewiring the lot? I was thinking it could be diagonally opposite in the engine bay and therefore being a short electrical distance from the supply.
Then why open the bonnet for a charge or jump start? Just have 2 posts either side of the rear number plate, suitably covered and disguised.
Greg, with engine management, a friend here is just having a 'Link' management unit fitted to his '88 S4 manual, with coil on plug setup. I'm waiting to see how this works. This chap if a very competent race driver, so it will get well tested.
I don't want to modify my 2 current 86S cars [further] but I'm negotiating on a donor car at the present.
very exciting times!
Mike
The OBR system looks very capable and the fact that you can program it yourself is a huge selling point in my book. How much does it run for a complete system? I see you have your ABS integrated, which ABS system are you using? Do you have any info on the ABS system? I currently have the stock 928 ABS but I really want a modern system with ESC and the only one that comes to mind as being completely adaptable to the 928 is the Bosch motorsports system which is EXPENSIVE!
Mike,
I am keeping the jump post location stock, although it will have a positive and negative terminal with upgraded wiring compared to stock. I think it is a well protected location, and keeps the car looking stock on the outside. I added a battery charger/tender hookup that is permanently connected to the battery posts, and use an Optima 1200 digital charger/maintainer.
02-17-2016, 08:23 AM
