Empty shell to finished car
12-23-2010, 08:37 PM
#47
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12-23-2010, 10:49 PM
#48
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Thread Starter
I found House of Color Paints difficult to apply. There is a German line - Glas that is favored by many German body repair shops. Not used it my self.
For the best and deepest finish it is difficult to beat lacquer. For the beginner lacquer is far more forgiving.
The Onyx black used on Mercedes is the deepest black that I have seen.
I use a special spot weld drill to remove panels. It drills only through the top of the weld. The when the new panel is ready to be installer the welds can be made easily and look like the factory original welds. Eastwood sells a couple which can be sourced cheaper on the net. With a high speed air drill you can disassemble 928 panels efficiently and quickly.
For the best and deepest finish it is difficult to beat lacquer. For the beginner lacquer is far more forgiving.
The Onyx black used on Mercedes is the deepest black that I have seen.
I use a special spot weld drill to remove panels. It drills only through the top of the weld. The when the new panel is ready to be installer the welds can be made easily and look like the factory original welds. Eastwood sells a couple which can be sourced cheaper on the net. With a high speed air drill you can disassemble 928 panels efficiently and quickly.
Hi Dan,
I have practiced quite a bit applying the HoK primer and it sprays on easily with an HVLP gun. Using the recommended 10% reduction, each coat is approximately 1 mils. Planning on 3 coats of primer before any sanding is done. I will leave the color coats to the professionals but feel comfortable doing the basic prep work and priming myself.
I am trying to source a smaller spot weld bit, as the Eastwood bit is a bit large for the relatively small diameter spot welds on the 928. It will work in a pinch but prefer a better fit. What diameter bit did you use? I think the Eastwood bit is 10mm
Carl
12-24-2010, 06:40 PM
#49
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Carl,
I do not know if you stripped to the bare metal or just the factory primer. I use DTM (Direct to Metal) as the base coat and sealer. I generally do the bondo work directly to the metal, althouth the DTM says bondo can be applied over. I have seen too many seam edges showing through with this type of thing so I err on the conservative side.
I use Old School primer over the DTM. It is easy to block and take out imprefections. A good 2K build primer will work just as well expecially if you are going with a 2 Pack finish. I use a long board and 400 to block out the final - of course this is after I get the panel straight with body work and bondo. There is a product by 3M that acts as a guide coat. You put it on like wax - no spraying and then block until it is gone. Makes the final smoothing a piece of cake.
Look up the name of the Eastwood spot weld drill. Then srearch the internet for the manufacturer. You will find quite a selection of spot weld drills. I have the Eastwood drill and a smaller one I bought - which was some time ago so I do not know the source, but I think it was the same company that makes the Eastwood drill. I have put on a roof - it is pretty easy if the car is square.
I used the Eastwood drill with a high speed air drill to remove panels. But I generally drill from the panel I do not want leaving the other panel with no holes. It is fast and effective. I also use a kitchen knife for separating panels. It gets beat up but works pretty good. Panels can be glued and pop rivited as well as welding. I gas weld most things on body work - just a bad old school habit. But there are some spot welders out there that should work. I sold my Harbor Frieght mig and am saving up for a Clark with the reel in the welding head.
I do not know if you stripped to the bare metal or just the factory primer. I use DTM (Direct to Metal) as the base coat and sealer. I generally do the bondo work directly to the metal, althouth the DTM says bondo can be applied over. I have seen too many seam edges showing through with this type of thing so I err on the conservative side.
I use Old School primer over the DTM. It is easy to block and take out imprefections. A good 2K build primer will work just as well expecially if you are going with a 2 Pack finish. I use a long board and 400 to block out the final - of course this is after I get the panel straight with body work and bondo. There is a product by 3M that acts as a guide coat. You put it on like wax - no spraying and then block until it is gone. Makes the final smoothing a piece of cake.
Look up the name of the Eastwood spot weld drill. Then srearch the internet for the manufacturer. You will find quite a selection of spot weld drills. I have the Eastwood drill and a smaller one I bought - which was some time ago so I do not know the source, but I think it was the same company that makes the Eastwood drill. I have put on a roof - it is pretty easy if the car is square.
I used the Eastwood drill with a high speed air drill to remove panels. But I generally drill from the panel I do not want leaving the other panel with no holes. It is fast and effective. I also use a kitchen knife for separating panels. It gets beat up but works pretty good. Panels can be glued and pop rivited as well as welding. I gas weld most things on body work - just a bad old school habit. But there are some spot welders out there that should work. I sold my Harbor Frieght mig and am saving up for a Clark with the reel in the welding head.
12-24-2010, 07:23 PM
#51
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Dan,
Thanks for the tips and suggestions. I will look for the smaller bit online.
I am taking the car down to bare metal on all exterior surfaces, only leaving the factory undercoating underneath the car and in the wheel wells since it is completely pristine without any breaks or corrosion.
The engine compartment and interior will be scuffed with 80-100 grit to create a good surface for the 2-part epoxy primer to adhere to.
The roof panel will be glued with 3M panel bond, and I may add some spot welds around the A-and B-pillars. Have not decided what to replace the lead seams with yet, but I think Metal-to-Metal (Evercoat) will be sufficient.
Merry Christmas!
Carl
Thanks for the tips and suggestions. I will look for the smaller bit online.
I am taking the car down to bare metal on all exterior surfaces, only leaving the factory undercoating underneath the car and in the wheel wells since it is completely pristine without any breaks or corrosion.
The engine compartment and interior will be scuffed with 80-100 grit to create a good surface for the 2-part epoxy primer to adhere to.
The roof panel will be glued with 3M panel bond, and I may add some spot welds around the A-and B-pillars. Have not decided what to replace the lead seams with yet, but I think Metal-to-Metal (Evercoat) will be sufficient.
Merry Christmas!
Carl
12-24-2010, 08:54 PM
#52
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Shared the isle row on a five hour flight with a guy who does paint and sales for chip foos the other day. He said he only shoots HOK. But for primer and other prep materials he likes 3M.
12-24-2010, 09:55 PM
#53
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Thread Starter
Interesting and great information. Makes me feel better about my final choice for the paint system
I have narrowed down the color options to 10 color shapes, which I have posted here: http://web.me.com/carllindberg/SiteMerry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
Carl
12-24-2010, 10:01 PM
#54
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Thanks, I will add that to my shopping list
How's the paint coming along? Can't wait to see that GTS all painted on the road. The wheels look great. If you have time, check out the color shapes I am thinking about, at: http://web.me.com/carllindberg/Site
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
Carl
12-25-2010, 05:35 AM
#55
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I am confused about the replacement of the roof panel. Maybe I am just nor reading things right. I saw from the picture that the roof was cut off but the side rails were still in place. The spot welds for the side of the roof are under the aluminum side rails. They are easy to remove. I start by taking the back clamp off and then use a screw drive shaft and hammer to go along the between the body and the rail. They pop off undamaged.
The other spot welds are under the windshield and under the rear deck lid. with this stuff removed a spot welder is easy to use.
As far as under the hood I would not scuff it with 80 grit. Instead I would get a good cleaner and then spray on some paint etch on the surface. That will break any gloss and give you a good paint surface for half the work with better results.
There is a product called Dragon skin or something like that. You might consider removing the smelly interior insulation and spraying the inside with the Dragon Skin. it will give you some more sound deading and heat insullation. then you can add back some padding that does not smell so bad.
The other spot welds are under the windshield and under the rear deck lid. with this stuff removed a spot welder is easy to use.
As far as under the hood I would not scuff it with 80 grit. Instead I would get a good cleaner and then spray on some paint etch on the surface. That will break any gloss and give you a good paint surface for half the work with better results.
There is a product called Dragon skin or something like that. You might consider removing the smelly interior insulation and spraying the inside with the Dragon Skin. it will give you some more sound deading and heat insullation. then you can add back some padding that does not smell so bad.
12-25-2010, 07:39 AM
#56
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Lizard skin. A ceramic undercoating. Works very well and easy to apply.
http://www.lizardskin.com/lizard_ski...insulation.php
http://www.lizardskin.com/lizard_ski...insulation.php
12-25-2010, 01:28 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Dan,
The reason I first cut around the perimeter was to see exactly how and where the sunroof cassette was attached to the read cross brace. Since it was my first removal of a roof of any kind, I wanted to make sure I cut in the right spot. Next will be the spot welds that you are talking about. Sorry if I made it sound confusing
I think the product you are talking about is Lizzard Skin. I have not found much of a review for it, so my plan is to use Dynamat equivalent from Eastwood. I have already removed about 99% of the old smelly and cracking factory insulation. Only have glue residue left, which is a real pain to remove.
Carl
The reason I first cut around the perimeter was to see exactly how and where the sunroof cassette was attached to the read cross brace. Since it was my first removal of a roof of any kind, I wanted to make sure I cut in the right spot. Next will be the spot welds that you are talking about. Sorry if I made it sound confusing
I think the product you are talking about is Lizzard Skin. I have not found much of a review for it, so my plan is to use Dynamat equivalent from Eastwood. I have already removed about 99% of the old smelly and cracking factory insulation. Only have glue residue left, which is a real pain to remove.
Carl
12-26-2010, 05:19 AM
#58
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The aheasive removal is easy with Jasco Adheasive Remover.
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CDoQ8wIwAA#
And Lizard skin web site is here. http://www.lizardskin.com/
There are two kinds of lizard skin and they can be combined in a double coat. One is for heat and the other for sound. I think you will find the Lizard skin cheaper and quicker to apply than the dynamat. Save the dynamat for the doors. Not sure you need to remove much of the old adheasive to use the Dragon Skin.
Shop for the Dyna mat. Eastwood is probably the most expensive. I found savings of over 50% by shopping around. Sometimes radio sales places over stock and offer great deals to clear inventory.
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CDoQ8wIwAA#
And Lizard skin web site is here. http://www.lizardskin.com/
There are two kinds of lizard skin and they can be combined in a double coat. One is for heat and the other for sound. I think you will find the Lizard skin cheaper and quicker to apply than the dynamat. Save the dynamat for the doors. Not sure you need to remove much of the old adheasive to use the Dragon Skin.
Shop for the Dyna mat. Eastwood is probably the most expensive. I found savings of over 50% by shopping around. Sometimes radio sales places over stock and offer great deals to clear inventory.
12-26-2010, 09:47 PM
#59
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I have finally gotten started on my quest to "rebuild" my car from scratch. Sure, I guess I am a glutton for punishment, but for me, a lot of the fun of owning a 928 is to work on it.
So, I thought I would start posting the progress pictures here and share the progress with the 928 community. This is my third 928, having owned a 1980 928, a 1986.5 928S, and this latest addition, an empty 1990 GT shell. Yup, empty shell. The plan was to restore the 86.5 but after completely stripping it down, I found too much frame damage to be financially justifiable for a rebuild. So with the help of Mark Benton of The Nine Source, I found a GT frame in great condition and will use that as a base for my "new" car. By the way, many thanks to Mark for the great service and honest business practice.
In a sense it will be a "hybrid car" since it will use a lot of the components from the 86.5 in a GT shell, but I am not building it for anyone but myself. It will get a sunroof delete and as you can see in the picture, the main panel has already been removed. That part was fairly painless. Now comes the fun part of drilling out all those spot welds
Paint will be House of Kolor, jet black with either an ice pearl or read pearl effect. If anyone has any good pictures to share of 928 specific black metallics, I might consider something along that route instead.
Suspension will be Bilstein's with Hypercoil springs (400/250 fron/rear). Dave Robert's front and rear sway bars (first batch several years ago) and most likely front sway bar reinforcements.
Brakes will be GTS front calipers/rotors and hopefully something bigger than the stock S4 brakes in the rear with my current 33bar bias valve.
Wheels will be 18" Fikse FM10's with 255's in front and 295's in the rear.
All fuel lines and brake lines will be brand new, most likely from Classic Tube. Was thinking of stainless steel, but I hear some people talking about fatigue issues with that setup, so will probably go OEM material.
Interior will be all black leather with grey carpet, Paul and Hans' window switch panel, and when available, the "Carputer" system.
Engine power....well, we shall see about that one, but around 430 for starters sounds good to me
Any suggestions and comments (good and bad) are greatly appreciated. I will do the prep and priming myself, but not adventurous enough for the color coat.
Cheers!
Carl Lindberg
So, I thought I would start posting the progress pictures here and share the progress with the 928 community. This is my third 928, having owned a 1980 928, a 1986.5 928S, and this latest addition, an empty 1990 GT shell. Yup, empty shell. The plan was to restore the 86.5 but after completely stripping it down, I found too much frame damage to be financially justifiable for a rebuild. So with the help of Mark Benton of The Nine Source, I found a GT frame in great condition and will use that as a base for my "new" car. By the way, many thanks to Mark for the great service and honest business practice.
In a sense it will be a "hybrid car" since it will use a lot of the components from the 86.5 in a GT shell, but I am not building it for anyone but myself. It will get a sunroof delete and as you can see in the picture, the main panel has already been removed. That part was fairly painless. Now comes the fun part of drilling out all those spot welds
Paint will be House of Kolor, jet black with either an ice pearl or read pearl effect. If anyone has any good pictures to share of 928 specific black metallics, I might consider something along that route instead.
Suspension will be Bilstein's with Hypercoil springs (400/250 fron/rear). Dave Robert's front and rear sway bars (first batch several years ago) and most likely front sway bar reinforcements.
Brakes will be GTS front calipers/rotors and hopefully something bigger than the stock S4 brakes in the rear with my current 33bar bias valve.
Wheels will be 18" Fikse FM10's with 255's in front and 295's in the rear.
All fuel lines and brake lines will be brand new, most likely from Classic Tube. Was thinking of stainless steel, but I hear some people talking about fatigue issues with that setup, so will probably go OEM material.
Interior will be all black leather with grey carpet, Paul and Hans' window switch panel, and when available, the "Carputer" system.
Engine power....well, we shall see about that one, but around 430 for starters sounds good to me
Any suggestions and comments (good and bad) are greatly appreciated. I will do the prep and priming myself, but not adventurous enough for the color coat.
Cheers!
Carl Lindberg
You are perhaps the first in this category of dissection to the core of this vehicle that I've seen.
I think you have become the 928 surgeon.- You really do love that car.
Most add, while you remove , to what only the factory workers see.
Please document it all.
12-26-2010, 09:50 PM
#60
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- btw. The painted wing of your vehicle looks just right for the car and not a contrast in color that one notices it .
It absolutely blends in with the body.
I haven't seen that before.
It absolutely blends in with the body.
I haven't seen that before.