safulop

Well no, see, instead of informing me of the law, turning me around at the info desk and sending me back to the PO to tell him to get this car smogged, instead of doing that they processed my paperwork, *took my tax money and reg fees*, gave me temporary tags, and made me the registered owner, neglecting to tell me that I am still not the legal owner in their opinion. This means that I have to come up with reg fees etc. while the PO still "owns" the car. This is not a good system. It would have been really simple when you first walk in, they ask you why you are there and verify your paperwork right then. This is their opportunity to say "no ticket, no shirts, sorry, see you next time with your smog check." I should not have even been given a number to wait my turn. Instead (through facilitating my own ignorance I now admit), they have produced a legal SNAFU.

Charley B

Bureaucrats only provide that type of service when their own children walk through the door.

Unless your Mom or Dad works there, you'll need to take responsibility for yourself.

And it's not just the DMV, thay act that way all over town.

safulop

There's a lot of truth in what you've said. I know because as a professor at Fresno State, I also have "bureaucratic" functions, but because I don't want to be a bureaucrat I don't act like one. I actually help students navigate the dyed-in-the-wool bureaucrats by running interference for them, and they sometimes don't even know how helpful I've been behind the scenes. Too bad the DMV folks can't take a moment to correct our ignorance when it would be just that easy.

Nicole

The only time you can buy a car that is not smog certified for use in CA, is when you buy it from out of State. But then you still have to get it smog tested and bring the certificate when you register the car.

There is a difference between smog and smoke... Most emissions can't be seen with human eyes but can still affect air quality and health.

The probable reason why they made the laws as they are is so that it won't become an easy sport to cheat the system. You can blame the politicians for that, or those who have an interest in breaking the laws (thus rendering them ineffective).

danglerb

You should have first registered the car as PNO (non operational). Calif tax is a use tax, pno is no use, so no tax, and later on when it works you can register for just reg fees, still no tax.

No idea how the non op effects title, but might work.

Charley B

PNO does not affect use tax when registering a car for the first time. Think of use tax as a sales tax, and PNO fees as registration fees (lower if not using vehicle).

danglerb

My 84 Euro was PNO when I bought it, and no tax yet.

OTOH I never registered it, and its destined for scrap soon.

Pretty sure I got a pink slip too, but laws may have changed in the last couple years.

Charley B

If you received a pink you paid the use tax. The tax was based on a percentage of the sales price that you represented to the DMV. You may have said the sales price was a hundred dollars and the tax would have been very little. Less than $10. If you represented it as PNO the reg. fee was probably about $15.

Orange County Use Tax rate is 8.75% of sales price.

S4ordie

What is your intention with the car? Are you going to repair it, sell it to the salvage yard? If the later, get the PO to authorize the transfer of title to the salvage yard. You make your money as the middle man. If your intention is to save the car, then tell the DMV and explain this will be a multi year restoration process and at no time the car will not be on the road. They will issue you the PNO and interim registration. What's the problem? IF the car is a crispy critter how can you get insurance for it anyway? It is not clear what your intentions are.

safulop

I guess the whole issue is a matter of how bureaucratic policy is being implemented at DMV here. They are bending their own rules, producing legal limbos. If the law states there can be no title transfer without a recent smog, then they should tell you to "fuggeddaboudit" without the smog, just like they would if you walked in with the PO's title not properly endorsed. The wrong thing to do is to start pushing paper around, pretending everything will be fine. That's how this car got caught in limbo.

The problem is this: I bought the car not knowing smog was required for title transfer, I thought it was only a requirement for registration as operational. We processed the PO's title which he signed. This paperwork was subsequently lost either by DMV or in the fire, it is not known which. The computer system states that the PO is still technically the "title holder," while I am now the "registered owner" because the paperwork was started already. The car was toasted in a shop fire, I already took my money from the shop's insurance, and now they need somebody to sign over the title so they can scrap what's left of my car. But because it is in this limbo, it is unclear even to DMV employees (as they told me Thursday) just who should sign off on what. It appears that I have to go back to the PO with a special form Transfer of Title with Duplicate Title, to get him to duplicate the sign-off that was first done, because that paperwork was lost and not recorded. Then I probably have to fill out a second form of this nature, signing off to the insurance company. But no one is yet even sure that this will produce a satisfactory paper trail.

It's a huge mess, but there's some hope that it will be OK with all this form-signing going on.

-Sean

Jim Devine

to protect the former owner this form is supposed to be filled out & mailed to dmv at time of sale.
If it was filled out & is on record, it should prove
the car was sold to you.

http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg138.htm

safulop

Yes indeed, I mailed that form myself on behalf of the PO. But that fact was of no help, apparently. They still want this other stuff redone, without a copy of the original title in evidence.