Cosmo Kramer

I know of a Rlister that got the heads off his 85 with the engine in place. One of the head studs needed to be trimmed slightly to get clearance to pull the head. Might be less work them pulling the engine, but if it needs oil pan gasket motor mounts etc it might be better just to yank it out.

SteveG

You already talked to 928 Inter'l. The other two for parts are Dave Roberts in NC (928 Specialists.com; 828-766-9280) and Roger Tyson, in Texas, 817-430-2688; all three can offer tech advise. AFA tools, you'll need a flywheel lock, a Kempf (TB tension) tool, a 3/4 breaker bar and a 27MM deep socket for the crank, that's about it for specials. A torque wrench to 250 NM, IIRC the crank is get 219 NM, and the cams to 65 when putting it back together. There is a set of CDs from Jim Moorehouse that are excellent, search here. John Kelly, also here sometimes, has a great picture manual on TB replacement.

Brett Jenkins

North Vernon is my home town. The first house I bought in North Vernon was SOUTH of Vernon. Go figure.

tmpusfugit

A very long time ago I shared an apartment with a guy from North Vernon...his last name is Dell. I think his family remains there in North Vernon area while he remains in HC. And I was aware that North Vernon is south of Vernon, thanks mostly to having spent time there trying to find a couple of customers....

Interesting to at least some ex-Hoosiers.....

Imo000

I'm one othe the lucky ones. The belt jumped 3 teeth on one side and 4 on the other. AND no bent valves!!! Put a new belt on it, make sure the water pump spins freely, but the distributors back on and crank it over.....spin it by hand. If the compression test then comes out good and the engine runs fine, button it up. If not, start pulling it apart.

Cosmo Kramer

Was that the time this year? Was it still running with it being that far out?

Imo000

Nah...this was just before I started installing the supercharger and it stalled when this happened and never re started. When cranking I could hear it was low on compressio. Must have a horseshoe up my a$$.

Bill Ball

A local S4, water pump seizure while driving on the freeway. No bent valves....

sifufrank

I have begun to get ready to pull the motor. I have the Two TB covers off and i see that there a number of teeth gone on the belt. The car was attempting to start when the failure took place. The engine could have been turned over a number of times. Should I install a belt and do the compression or leak down test? Is breaking a belt with no bent valve such a freak accident that pulling is the best course of action? I am torn between the two.

auzivision

Okay, two people have already spoke up about breaking timing belts and not bending valves. How could you even consider skipping a compression check? It's not that hard to put a belt on a do a compression check. It may save you a ton of unnecessary work.

I guess maybe its luck of the draw where the cams are positioned when the belt breaks. There are two 45 degree positions (probably plus/minus 10 degrees) that allow the pistons to move without hitting the valves at all. That’s already greater than 10% there is no contact (40/360).

I don’t know if anyone really knows how much contact the two can take. Considering when the link between the cams and crank is disconnect that cams can go in either direction. The pistons just might push back on the valves and accelerate (or decelerate) the cams. It probably takes a pretty decent timing where the valve is full open while the piston is arriving at TDC.

I’ll go on a limb and speculate there is a 1 in 3 chance you didn’t bend the valves. You decide whether thirty minutes to install the belt is worth the time to check compression. You are going to need to learn how to do that step anyhow and it’s a whole lot easier the second time you do it.

What you can be reasonable assured is if it doesn’t pass a compression test, then it is most likely bent valves.

dr bob

I'd start off with the leakdown test rather than a compression test. OP has the tools, and it can be done without spinning the motor with the starter and risking further damage.

To get there, move the crank to ANY (think "closest") point in the rotation that's 45º from either top or bottom center on number 1. Once the crank is there, no pistons will be at the top. Rotate the cams to their 45º notches. Then move the crank --gently--, --by hand--, to the 45º mark on the balancer. Pull all the plugs before you do any of this, and STOP if you feel anything that doesn't feel right as you move the crank around. Put the new belt on, then do your leakdown test to see if you have bent valves leaking through.

If the heads need to come off, go ahead and pull the motor. It has head studs rather than bolts, making it virtually impossible to get the heads off with the block still in the car. Lots of cleaning to do, and you'll want to research a new water pump. Gaskets, new rubber parts, fuel lines, hoses, coolant reservoir, all need to be renewed WYAIT. If the car's been sitting a long time, clean the injectors. New wires, crank position sensor, other engine sensors might be worthwhile with the easy access. New motor mounts. There will be more.

Warning: RESIST ANY URGE TO DO ANY CLEANUP ON THE BORES. Steel engine tools and techniques, like "clean-up honing" will make the engine junk in a heartbeat.

You'll want a set of the workshop manuals for sure before you get deeper into the project, and will want them down the road anyway. CD sets are available from a Roger in Texas, one of our sponsors.

Don't be afraid to ask anything. Lots of good knowledge in the group, stuff that can save you time, money and heartache.

Rod Underwood

I was born in Logansport also, but went to Purdue. oops, I guess we can still be friends here. ;-) Live in Muncie now.

Rod

Bill Ball

The teeth are normally sheared by the crank gear as it is the only driven gear. So, if the missing teeth are all the way around to the area under the side covers, that's a sign that there was significant belt rotation after the teeth sheered off. How many missing teeth? If it's only 3 or 4, you may have gotten lucky. If more, you probably smacked some valves. If you have no other reason to pull the motor, I would put on a fresh belt and do a compression test or leakdown. It really doesn't matter which. You're looking for zero compression or 100% leakdown. The potential advantage of doing this is that you may have been half lucky and only smacked valve(s) on one side, so would only need to pull one head.

Now, when you uncover the crank, if it is significantly away from 45 degrees BTDC, turn it only to the nearest 90 degree increment from 45 degrees before TDC. If it is closer to one of these increments if you turn the motor backwards (counterclockwise), then do so. Generally this is frowned upon, but I would do it in this case, trying to minimize the amount of crank turning. Pay attention to any resistance (pull the plugs first). Noting that 90 crank degrees is 45 cam degrees, align the cams referencing the cam TDC marks with the appropriate cam degress from there, and mount the belt.

sifufrank

Thanks for the info everyone. I have ordered a belt for 928 international and the flywheel lock and the belt tensioning tool. I will have the belt today but the other two tools are coming ground and iI realized to late that i wont be able to install the belt with out the flywheel lock in place. Is this because you cant get the crank bolt out with out holding the flywheel? I know it has to be torqued to 218 f/lb when reinstalling. The flywheel lock would have to be installed to torque the bolt when reinstalling. My idea was to install the belt with the old water pump and tensioner to do the leak down. The other parts wont be here till late next week. I have a water pump and the rebuild for the tensioner coming. Is it possible to get the H-balencer and pullys off with an impact wrench and go ahead and install the belt this weekend and do the leakdown? I realize I wont be able to torque the crank bolt without the flywheel lock. I down loaded some of the manuals to do the work but it really doesn't explain what the flywheel lock is for. I have surmized its purpose but can what I want to do be done without it?

Cosmo Kramer

If you pull the rad you will be able to get an impact gun on the bolt, but not with it in place. It is pretty tight so you will probably need a pretty good gun to get it off.