Mike Frye

Steve,

I was afraid you'd take it that way. My offer was genuine and I can still come to your house and help you check it out if you like.

Know that this problem is probably very small and one that, once we fix it, will leave you with a car that can be driven with confidence and enjoyment anywhere you want to go.

My car was a project that took me several years to get to the point where yours is now. I'm sure that once we figure out what this issue is, you'll be able to drive it without another issue for a year or more, then it will be due for some maintenance and you can continue to drive it without issue for another year.

When a car is put into service after a major maintenance plan has been done to it, there's bound to be a few little things that only show up after the fact and this is what you're up against.

Don't throw in the towel yet.

I'm going to rake leaves and if you send me your address by the time I'm done (maybe 12 or 1) I'll let you know when I leave the house and I'm heading up. If I don't hear from you I'll assume you have decided you're going a different way. I don't want you to give up though and I'd hate for you to have to pay someone to find out it's a loose wire or corroded ground (after 6 hours of labor reading a manual because they've never seen a 928).

Let me know.

BRB-83-911SC

If someone offered to show up at my house with tools to help me troubleshoot a problem I was stuck on, I would roll out the red carpet. Very generous offer from Mike.

norcoastal

THanks Mike, I do feel a little defeated because I have no idea what I'm doing.

I'd appreciate the help.

I'll throw on some Halloween candy (and a red carpet)...

norcoastal

So here's the follow up.

First of all...a HUGE thank you to Mike Frye you took time out of his Sunday to come over and troubleshoot my car.

After taking a lot apart, checking the Temp II senors, ground points, MAF and such...it looks like either a fuel filter or a fuel pump.

We think it's a filter because we can hear the pump working.

When we took the bolt off of the end of the injector tube (my name for it) no fuel came out. So it's either a filter or a pump.

I'm going to order a filter now and install it and let you know.

Great experience today, I couldn't have done it without Mike.

And apparently today's Jet game was the one to miss.

norcoastal

Fuel filter ordered through 928 Specialists

Should have it in two days

I'll keep you posted

Mike Frye

Hey Steve,

No problem on today. I'm 99% sure we've got it nailed down to the fuel filter. Although I guess it could be the pump. I don't know how long the car had been sitting but maybe the long drive out from Michigan dislodged some gunk in the tank.

As Steve mentioned, we jumped the fuel pump relay and heard the pump but even with the fuel rail cap off, nothing came out.

Next step fuel filter, and possibly fuel pump. Let me know when you get the filter in if you want a hand replacing it and testing it.

The good news is we know most of the grounds are good, the Temp II metered perfectly back to the LH, the MAF metered good, and everything looks fine except we don't have any fuel getting to the fuel rail.

Landseer

Great that you've narrowed it down.
Nice work.

Worst case is the need to operate on tank, strainer, hose, pump and filter.
Stuff should't have gotten past a good strainer and the filter is downstream of the pump.

Good call on trying to just replace the filter / then try it.

Is there a check valve also that can give problems?

Hilton

If the filter doesn't fix the issue, there's one other possibility - screwed into the end of the pump is a check valve, which closes to prevent pressure loss from the injectors when the pump turns off.

Its possible the check valve could be jammed.

Try the filter first - always good to know the age of your filters, and it may be old and gunked up. However, before ordering a new pump, I'd unscrew the check valve and see if you can blow through it in one direction.

If not, you can order it as a separate part - 893 906 093 (yes, a 9 digit part number.. from PET).

ALKada

Wow, what great support and team work. Mike you are an asset to the NE 928 community! Thanks for helping fellow 928'ers out!

928 at last

Now we're getting somewhere.
With the way the car's been acting, I'd go for the filter first too.

928 at last

I might suggest a fuel pressure gauge from Roger to install in the rail and be done with it. Then you have a ready reference point.

Just sayin'

Hilton

Steve, for general orientation of the car and whats in the engine bay, seeing as how you have 2 days to get more familiar with it waiting for the filter, see Tony's site:

http://members.rennlist.com/v1uhoh/

Top item on the "Routine Checks and Maintenance" drop down is "Under the hood what is it", with a numbered list and pictures of all the bits including sensor connectors like Temp II.

Its also worth having a read of the rest of Tony's site, and also these sites:

http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/svc.html
http://www.928s4.com/project/project.htm
http://www.dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/
http://members.rennlist.org/jorj7/
http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm

Having more knowledge about the cars is a great start to feeling more familiar with them - you sound like you've got good engine experience on other engines, so aren't afraid to pick up a wrench.

For some background reading on the problem you've got, look at the Nichols page on Engine stuff, and find all the occurrences of the word "Start" on this page: http://www.nichols.nu/cat03.htm

Now you already have some context from Mike's outstanding help diagnosing, you'll have some understanding of the checks and problems listed under the various no-start causes on the Nichols site, so have a read of the various starting-related tips, to get an appreciation of how it all works.
You'll find tips under headings like "Engine wont Start", "Hard to Start When Warm", "Intermittant Starting", "No Start = Crank Sensor", "No Start unless Accellerator Pressed", "No Start when Hot" etc.

You really did it the right way round - buying a car from a good 928er who's done a lot of the big-ticket preventative maintenance items.. but small failures are inevitable, even on newer cars, so bear with it

Mike Frye

Good idea. I recommended that too, I've got one and it's a great tool.

dr bob

Relay-relay-relay-relay. All four at once and save the suspense for later.

Miti-vac on the fuel pressure regulators and dampers to test for diaphragm leaks.

LH controller is suspect, especially if the controller is original.

Fuel pump(s) and hoses/screens. Fuel filters seldom if ever plug completely. Check valve leaking would only be a problem with maintaining pressure after the engine is shut off.


The quick and the dirty....



In that order.

leperboy

Okay, Mike. My cruise control isn't working. Can't figure it out. I'll make up the bed in the guest room. Figure it'll take you two days to get out here.

Matt