It Just Died!!! Very Frustrating!!!
10-30-2010, 03:38 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
It Just Died!!! Very Frustrating!!!
I've been having idle and pefrormance problems and I've been trying to figure them out.
It idles very poorly, so bad that I have to drop it in neutral at a stop light so it doesn't stall.
Sometimes while i'm driving it loses power and I have to pump it to keep it alive.
If i can get it into the high revs, it will run better so I don't think it's a fuel problem.
Then...yesterday I was pulling out into traffic and it just died. Nothing at all. It won't start, not even a kick. Totally dead.
I had to have it towed to my house.
It used to start on the first kick of the key, then it's been slowly taking longer to start. Now...nothing.
I've only had this car 2 months and I'm ready to jump off a cliff!
Any suggestions...well besides shooting myself...
It idles very poorly, so bad that I have to drop it in neutral at a stop light so it doesn't stall.
Sometimes while i'm driving it loses power and I have to pump it to keep it alive.
If i can get it into the high revs, it will run better so I don't think it's a fuel problem.
Then...yesterday I was pulling out into traffic and it just died. Nothing at all. It won't start, not even a kick. Totally dead.
I had to have it towed to my house.
It used to start on the first kick of the key, then it's been slowly taking longer to start. Now...nothing.
I've only had this car 2 months and I'm ready to jump off a cliff!
Any suggestions...well besides shooting myself...
10-30-2010, 03:46 PM
#2
Race Car
Can try the fuel filter but likely you have vacuum leaks from old hoses under intake. Search for intake refresh threads.
Electric sounds like the alternator to me, or you might get away with just swapping the internal voltage regulator.
Electric sounds like the alternator to me, or you might get away with just swapping the internal voltage regulator.
10-30-2010, 03:47 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
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Stalling in cold weather (In my experience) can be a sign of vacuum leaks. Have you check all of your vacuum lines and/or replaced them? Also any leaks from the MAS and the Throttlebody/intake can cause the same problems. Vacuum problems 'go away' at higher rpms but when you come to a stop and its 'stalling' then that can be traced to vacuum leaks (in my experience).
Check around the brake booster a lot of lines for the HVAC controls t-ee off of the booster vacuum feed. (thats just one area).. Another spot would be the vacuum lines for the autotransmission modulator. There is a vacuum line faq for your 87. Have you gone over it yet? These vacuum lines and the body/engine grounds are very important if you want a reliable car.
Check around the brake booster a lot of lines for the HVAC controls t-ee off of the booster vacuum feed. (thats just one area).. Another spot would be the vacuum lines for the autotransmission modulator. There is a vacuum line faq for your 87. Have you gone over it yet? These vacuum lines and the body/engine grounds are very important if you want a reliable car.
10-30-2010, 03:49 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Young padawan, patience. You have an old car you are working with here.
Others far more technically proficient will chime in I am sure, but one thing about the early S4's (I have not seen it on my later cars or my earlier cars) is the actual ignition switch goes out... Very strange things start to happen when that goes bad and it is something that can go bad slowly over time with seemingly unrelated things going wrong in the car.
That may or may not be your issue but I am sure others have had your exact experience and will lead you the right way. This ignition thing is just one thing to keep in the back of your mind for this problem and for other future strangeness you might experience!
Good luck and keep us posted. When you get the car all sorted, you will be a VERY HAPPY CAMPER! That often takes some time, so hang in there!
Others far more technically proficient will chime in I am sure, but one thing about the early S4's (I have not seen it on my later cars or my earlier cars) is the actual ignition switch goes out... Very strange things start to happen when that goes bad and it is something that can go bad slowly over time with seemingly unrelated things going wrong in the car.
That may or may not be your issue but I am sure others have had your exact experience and will lead you the right way. This ignition thing is just one thing to keep in the back of your mind for this problem and for other future strangeness you might experience!
Good luck and keep us posted. When you get the car all sorted, you will be a VERY HAPPY CAMPER! That often takes some time, so hang in there!
10-30-2010, 04:08 PM
#5
Team Owner
what do you mean by it wont start not even a tic?
Does this mean that there is not cranking or it cranks and no fire?
If it wont crank then replace the starter relay.
Do you know if the computers have been rebuilt?
Do you know the condition of the MAF.?
Have you done a CE panel cleaning of the fuses and relays??
Have you checked and cleaned the 14 pin connector above the hot post?
Does this mean that there is not cranking or it cranks and no fire?
If it wont crank then replace the starter relay.
Do you know if the computers have been rebuilt?
Do you know the condition of the MAF.?
Have you done a CE panel cleaning of the fuses and relays??
Have you checked and cleaned the 14 pin connector above the hot post?
10-30-2010, 04:44 PM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
It turns over but doesnt start.
On this car, the entire top end had been rebuilt before I got it. All new vacuum lines, Knock sensors, Breather hoses, Throttle position switch, Caps, Rotors, Wires, spark plugs, Passenger-side head gaskets, Cam seals, 32V'r cam timing, Timing Belt, Porkensioner, Re-built LH, Checked crank end play and installed PKlamp, Replaced the fuel lines, AuoThority Performance Chips.
So I'm guessing it's not vacuum lines or fuel lines.
On this car, the entire top end had been rebuilt before I got it. All new vacuum lines, Knock sensors, Breather hoses, Throttle position switch, Caps, Rotors, Wires, spark plugs, Passenger-side head gaskets, Cam seals, 32V'r cam timing, Timing Belt, Porkensioner, Re-built LH, Checked crank end play and installed PKlamp, Replaced the fuel lines, AuoThority Performance Chips.
So I'm guessing it's not vacuum lines or fuel lines.
10-30-2010, 05:04 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
I am gonna say ignition switch
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10-30-2010, 05:06 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Sounds like.
It turns over but doesnt start.
On this car, the entire top end had been rebuilt before I got it. All new vacuum lines, Knock sensors, Breather hoses, Throttle position switch, Caps, Rotors, Wires, spark plugs, Passenger-side head gaskets, Cam seals, 32V'r cam timing, Timing Belt, Porkensioner, Re-built LH, Checked crank end play and installed PKlamp, Replaced the fuel lines, AuoThority Performance Chips.
So I'm guessing it's not vacuum lines or fuel lines.
On this car, the entire top end had been rebuilt before I got it. All new vacuum lines, Knock sensors, Breather hoses, Throttle position switch, Caps, Rotors, Wires, spark plugs, Passenger-side head gaskets, Cam seals, 32V'r cam timing, Timing Belt, Porkensioner, Re-built LH, Checked crank end play and installed PKlamp, Replaced the fuel lines, AuoThority Performance Chips.
So I'm guessing it's not vacuum lines or fuel lines.
Did Andrew put a new fuel pump and filter in the car? Mine quit unexpectedly and results in the cranking and no-start condition you note.
You should be able to hear the pump running at the back of the car if it's working. Do a search on here. There's lots of info.
It may also just be a relay gone south. As others have said, this car has had all the evil stuff done. You're looking for something pretty straighforward here.
10-30-2010, 05:23 PM
#10
Team Owner
the fuel filter is above the fuel pump on the bottom of the fuel tank,
remove the 2 10mm nuts and the cover will come off see if someone may have written a date on the filter.
I would suggest to replace the 4 relays LH, EZK, Fuel pump and ignition do them one at a time,
but replace all 4 they are all 53 relays
remove the 2 10mm nuts and the cover will come off see if someone may have written a date on the filter.
I would suggest to replace the 4 relays LH, EZK, Fuel pump and ignition do them one at a time,
but replace all 4 they are all 53 relays
10-30-2010, 05:30 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
They tend to be Binary
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...fuel-pump.html
I'm not sure where exactly the filter is....It's the only thing I haven't done myself. There's lots of experience here though.
10-30-2010, 06:24 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
Its possible your fuel pump is dead - you can test by jumpering two pins in the fuel pump relay socket, and then walking around the back to listen to the pump.
10-31-2010, 10:06 AM
#13
Craic Head
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Some background
There have been several threads on these issues so far and I'm starting to see a trend. Unfortunately it's with the threads and not with the car.
This is going to sound like I'm bashing you, but please don't take it that way. I can hear your frustration with the car in your threads and I think you are truly one of the most passionate new owners we've got here. You're trying to get your car from where it is to where you envisioned it and when it runs like crap you don't care if it's a big ticket item or a $20 relay, the frickin' car isn't working and that sucks. We feel for you and want to help. Honestly.
Ok, my take:
You've gotten lots of suggestions about this and as nearly as I can tell haven't tried more than a small handful of the easier items. If you've tried more than that, you need to update the threads where they were suggested and give the results so we know you're trying and so we can move on from there with new information. Also future searchers will benefit from it.
If you send me your address I'll be at your house today with tools to help you work through it and hopefully between the two of us and any help we can find online here we'll get it taken care of.
One thing I need to strongly suggest though is if you're going to post a thread, you need to follow the advice you get, not just some of it, but all of it. These guys know their **** and have been through it before. Some of them multiple times.
If someone says to meter the Temp II sensor and you don't know how to do that, you need to look up the procedure or ask. If someone else says to buy some relays or verify that the fuel pump is running you need to try those things. If you don't know how, just ask. No one expects you to know everything especially when you just got the car. That's why we're here. But if you don't mention any follow-up or you just mention one or two things, we start to feel like you're not trying everything you could and that means you're not going to find the problem except by sheer luck.
It seems like you start these threads and then let them die without following up on the advice you get, then you start another one instead of reviving the old one with new info. This isn't going to help you and it's going to make the people who like to help just pass by your threads.
I'm linking the past threads on this issue here in hopes that someone is still paying attention who knows the S4s better than I do (which is probably almost everyone).
As I mentioned in my e-mail yesterday, it's actually a good thing that it's getting worse. It will be easier to find a no-start problem than it would have been to fix an intermittent temp related idle issue. So hang in there, let me know your address (via e-mail or PM) and I'll be there this afternoon with some tools and a fresh set of eyes. We'll get it figured out.
*****************************************************
2 past threads on this car and the list of work done prior to Steve taking delivery:
*****************************************************
Car is running rough: 10/16/2010
I think I'm selling...: 10/20/2010
Background on items done to the car before Steve got it:
1987 Porsche 928 S4 Picked up August 21, 2010
VIN: WPOJB0926HS860083
Mileage: 92,500
Work Performed: July – August 2010
Complete top end refresh
Vacuum lines
Knock sensors
Breather hoses
Throttle position switch
Caps
Rotors
Wires
spark plugs
Passenger-side head gasket
Cam seals
32V'r cam timing
Timing Belt
Porkensioner
MSDS Headers (came on the car)
New fluids
New front Spoiler
New front brake pads
Trans filter and fluid change
Repaired CE panel (mouse damage)
replaced broken fog lens (damn those things are expensive!)
Alignment
Re-built LH (Another expensive item!)
Complete detail of the paint using Meguiars M105 & M205 followed with Rejex "wax"
Powder coated intake and cam covers
New gaskets and seals for cam covers and breather ports
New steering rack boot
new tie rod end (boot was split)
AC head unit relay repair
Re-flow of Cruise control solder joints
Removed extremely faded tint
Replaced windshield
Replaced Driver-side mirror glass
Checked crank end play and installed PKlamp
Replaced the fuel lines
AuoThority Performance Chips
It does need motor mounts and an oil pan gasket.
Fuel pump(s)? It works. I wouldn't do it as a matter of preventive maintenance, but I might have a spare on hand, just in case. I'm pretty sure it just has the one pump.
Original Options
92HS860083;WP0JB06;1987;928910;C02/U;M28.42;A28.12; M018 I158 M418 M490 M494 M570 M650
Code Option Description
018 Sports steering wheel
158 Radio "Monterey" - 86 "Reno" - 87
418 Protective side moldings
490 Hi-Fi sound system
494 2 speakers on back shelf
494 Amplifier system
570 High output air conditioner
650 Sunroof
C02 Equipped with catalytic converter
Squirter block
Folding rear wing
********************************************************
Also, when he was bringing it home, one of the coolant hose clamps came loose and leaked some coolant so the low coolant light came on. Clamp was tightened, coolant added and that problem was solved.
This is going to sound like I'm bashing you, but please don't take it that way. I can hear your frustration with the car in your threads and I think you are truly one of the most passionate new owners we've got here. You're trying to get your car from where it is to where you envisioned it and when it runs like crap you don't care if it's a big ticket item or a $20 relay, the frickin' car isn't working and that sucks. We feel for you and want to help. Honestly.
Ok, my take:
You've gotten lots of suggestions about this and as nearly as I can tell haven't tried more than a small handful of the easier items. If you've tried more than that, you need to update the threads where they were suggested and give the results so we know you're trying and so we can move on from there with new information. Also future searchers will benefit from it.
If you send me your address I'll be at your house today with tools to help you work through it and hopefully between the two of us and any help we can find online here we'll get it taken care of.
One thing I need to strongly suggest though is if you're going to post a thread, you need to follow the advice you get, not just some of it, but all of it. These guys know their **** and have been through it before. Some of them multiple times.
If someone says to meter the Temp II sensor and you don't know how to do that, you need to look up the procedure or ask. If someone else says to buy some relays or verify that the fuel pump is running you need to try those things. If you don't know how, just ask. No one expects you to know everything especially when you just got the car. That's why we're here. But if you don't mention any follow-up or you just mention one or two things, we start to feel like you're not trying everything you could and that means you're not going to find the problem except by sheer luck.
It seems like you start these threads and then let them die without following up on the advice you get, then you start another one instead of reviving the old one with new info. This isn't going to help you and it's going to make the people who like to help just pass by your threads.
I'm linking the past threads on this issue here in hopes that someone is still paying attention who knows the S4s better than I do (which is probably almost everyone).
As I mentioned in my e-mail yesterday, it's actually a good thing that it's getting worse. It will be easier to find a no-start problem than it would have been to fix an intermittent temp related idle issue. So hang in there, let me know your address (via e-mail or PM) and I'll be there this afternoon with some tools and a fresh set of eyes. We'll get it figured out.
*****************************************************
2 past threads on this car and the list of work done prior to Steve taking delivery:
*****************************************************
Car is running rough: 10/16/2010
I think I'm selling...: 10/20/2010
Background on items done to the car before Steve got it:
1987 Porsche 928 S4 Picked up August 21, 2010
VIN: WPOJB0926HS860083
Mileage: 92,500
Work Performed: July – August 2010
Complete top end refresh
Vacuum lines
Knock sensors
Breather hoses
Throttle position switch
Caps
Rotors
Wires
spark plugs
Passenger-side head gasket
Cam seals
32V'r cam timing
Timing Belt
Porkensioner
MSDS Headers (came on the car)
New fluids
New front Spoiler
New front brake pads
Trans filter and fluid change
Repaired CE panel (mouse damage)
replaced broken fog lens (damn those things are expensive!)
Alignment
Re-built LH (Another expensive item!)
Complete detail of the paint using Meguiars M105 & M205 followed with Rejex "wax"
Powder coated intake and cam covers
New gaskets and seals for cam covers and breather ports
New steering rack boot
new tie rod end (boot was split)
AC head unit relay repair
Re-flow of Cruise control solder joints
Removed extremely faded tint
Replaced windshield
Replaced Driver-side mirror glass
Checked crank end play and installed PKlamp
Replaced the fuel lines
AuoThority Performance Chips
It does need motor mounts and an oil pan gasket.
Fuel pump(s)? It works. I wouldn't do it as a matter of preventive maintenance, but I might have a spare on hand, just in case. I'm pretty sure it just has the one pump.
Original Options
92HS860083;WP0JB06;1987;928910;C02/U;M28.42;A28.12; M018 I158 M418 M490 M494 M570 M650
Code Option Description
018 Sports steering wheel
158 Radio "Monterey" - 86 "Reno" - 87
418 Protective side moldings
490 Hi-Fi sound system
494 2 speakers on back shelf
494 Amplifier system
570 High output air conditioner
650 Sunroof
C02 Equipped with catalytic converter
Squirter block
Folding rear wing
********************************************************
Also, when he was bringing it home, one of the coolant hose clamps came loose and leaked some coolant so the low coolant light came on. Clamp was tightened, coolant added and that problem was solved.
10-31-2010, 10:27 AM
#14
Sounds like Temp II harness/wires.
10-31-2010, 10:34 AM
#15
Pro
Thread Starter
The reason I've been reluctant to post responses to suggestions is that I have no idea what people are telling me to do.
It's all greek to me. If it was a small block chevy and you said make sure the timing was 8 degrees before top dead center, I'd know what you're talking about.
I don't even know where to begin looking when you say check the Temp II sensor?
Also there are so many suggestions with guesses, that I'm trying to figure out where the common threads are and try them.
I've check the vacuum hoses as far as I can tell, I've changed the 53 relays as far as I can tell, I've looked at the fuses also.
It's frustrating because I've only had the car 2 months. I never expected for it to die in traffic and need to have it towed home. It's a great car, but is this worth it? Am I always going to have to worry if I'm going to make it home?
Don't worry about today, I'll try to figure it out on my own.
Thanks for the offer.
It's all greek to me. If it was a small block chevy and you said make sure the timing was 8 degrees before top dead center, I'd know what you're talking about.
I don't even know where to begin looking when you say check the Temp II sensor?
Also there are so many suggestions with guesses, that I'm trying to figure out where the common threads are and try them.
I've check the vacuum hoses as far as I can tell, I've changed the 53 relays as far as I can tell, I've looked at the fuses also.
It's frustrating because I've only had the car 2 months. I never expected for it to die in traffic and need to have it towed home. It's a great car, but is this worth it? Am I always going to have to worry if I'm going to make it home?
Don't worry about today, I'll try to figure it out on my own.
Thanks for the offer.