Rebuild of my 1980 Euro S
04-18-2012, 02:05 PM
#181
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Location: 1981 Euro 928 S
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Love what you've done to your car. I have the same car and was wondering if you'd know whether the newer s4 automatic transmission would fit on a 1980 Euro 928S. I have an extra transmission and mine is going bad.
04-19-2012, 04:36 AM
#183
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You can fit a four speed auto in your older 1980 car, but there are some issues. First you will need the parts. For parts there is the four speed torque tube, the shifter, the rear wiring harness and if you want to do it right a new tach with the lights. You probably need the Boden cable as well. There is a switch on the tranmission that operates the back up lights and the position lights on the tach. So some wiring is involved - it is simple but still some work.
The 4 speed has a secondary oil cooler so you might need the oil cooler and possibly the four speed cooling lines. The again you might be able to adapt the cooling lines on the three speed to work. I am not sure on the cross member but you might need the 4 speed cross member. I could be wrong here so you need to check the numbers.
But there are other problems. the bell housing on the S4 tranmission is bigger then the one on the early four speed and three speeds. I have heard stories of people using a hammer to make the tunnel larger. I have also heard stories of people giving up because of clearance. If you get a US 83 to 86 trans then you will have no problems as the torque converter is the same size as the three speed. I maybe wrong here in the 86.5 as I do not know when Porsche made the change. I do know the 86.5 body shares some similar characteristics with the S4.
But there is more issues. The differential on the 3 speed is around 2.75 - not totally sure on the exact number. The 4 speed US 83-88 transmissions have a 2:20. This might improve your highway mileage, but at the expense of performace. The 4 speed also starts in second which will change the off the line performace. There is one exception and that is the 89 diffential which is 2.54 and the gears will fit in the older trans. The gears from the 3 speed will not fit the S4.
I would not attempt a conversion without having the donnor car sitting next to you. You would be much better off putting in a five speed. Good luck
The 4 speed has a secondary oil cooler so you might need the oil cooler and possibly the four speed cooling lines. The again you might be able to adapt the cooling lines on the three speed to work. I am not sure on the cross member but you might need the 4 speed cross member. I could be wrong here so you need to check the numbers.
But there are other problems. the bell housing on the S4 tranmission is bigger then the one on the early four speed and three speeds. I have heard stories of people using a hammer to make the tunnel larger. I have also heard stories of people giving up because of clearance. If you get a US 83 to 86 trans then you will have no problems as the torque converter is the same size as the three speed. I maybe wrong here in the 86.5 as I do not know when Porsche made the change. I do know the 86.5 body shares some similar characteristics with the S4.
But there is more issues. The differential on the 3 speed is around 2.75 - not totally sure on the exact number. The 4 speed US 83-88 transmissions have a 2:20. This might improve your highway mileage, but at the expense of performace. The 4 speed also starts in second which will change the off the line performace. There is one exception and that is the 89 diffential which is 2.54 and the gears will fit in the older trans. The gears from the 3 speed will not fit the S4.
I would not attempt a conversion without having the donnor car sitting next to you. You would be much better off putting in a five speed. Good luck
04-19-2012, 10:43 AM
#184
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Been getting some good progress on the flush center console design, and last night got to fit what will probably be the final configuration. Still working out how items will be mounted - like how the stereo is held to the console, how the screws are accessed, and what order of assembly for installing everything or taking it apart later. Need the stereo in hand for the next step....
There was a lot of trimming to the inside of the side console plastic, and unfortunately to the HVAC head and central warning mounting ears - couldn't see any way around that, so will be redesigning the mounts for those too. The good news is, the double-DIN chassis looks like it will clear the comb flap vacume pot nicely! And will be adding a 12V power port down where the ashtray used to be. Still have to figure out how to trim around the edge of the new insert panel - the shape matching to the leather console is not consistent, so thinking of a welting cord or rubber "T" shape that will clip into the small gap all the way around.
There was a lot of trimming to the inside of the side console plastic, and unfortunately to the HVAC head and central warning mounting ears - couldn't see any way around that, so will be redesigning the mounts for those too. The good news is, the double-DIN chassis looks like it will clear the comb flap vacume pot nicely! And will be adding a 12V power port down where the ashtray used to be. Still have to figure out how to trim around the edge of the new insert panel - the shape matching to the leather console is not consistent, so thinking of a welting cord or rubber "T" shape that will clip into the small gap all the way around.
05-21-2012, 10:00 PM
#185
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Thread Starter
Been creative lately, making some things to upgrade the style inside with small touches of aluminum. I'm trying to make the style like todays cars with brushed aluminum trims with gloss black parts, as long as the gloss doesn't cause glare problems. The shift **** I made is a very nice piece if I do say so! Started as 2" 6061T6 round bar, and 6 hours later I have this. Needs final fitting to the shifter shaft for the mount screws, but will mount in stock location and work with the accordian boot just like the original.
The gauge panel has been out since Dec., waiting for some attention. Got all the LED conversion stuff coming, so while waiting started working on the parts that need cleaning or repair. The gauge light prisms had the old silver paint pretty faded and cracked, so got the razor blade out and scraped off the silvering - Mistake! I should have researched this first - found a post from MrMerlin that acetone will take off the silvering - could have saved me from scratching the prisms! I tried painting the outside face of 1 prism with chrome paint - it turned out grey - ugh! Looked at using aluminum foil, but not stretchy. Looked at Monokote, but the adhesive side is flat (not shiny). Carolyn suggested a silver mylar balloon material - it works pretty good! One balloon and a 1gr tube of superglue easily did all 3 prisms. I had to flame polish the scratches out of the surfaces, and I can now say that is a tricky thing to do! I takes a small torch, very good lighting, and extreme care to get this right without bubbling the plastic. I managed to get 1 prism decent, and the other 2 have bubbles. But, with the silver mylar in place, I think they will work just fine. I will also apply silver tape to the bottom of the gauge housing where the prism sits against to enhance the reflective path, and line the bulb pocket with a silver foil, trying to get as much light from the LED as possible into the prism, then keep it there until exit at the gauge end.
Also on the lathe have been trying to make gauge trim rings from ABS plastic instead of aluminum. With a bit of chrome paint, they look awesome! Yes, the same chrome paint tried on the prism - apparently it turns shiny chrome on the side exposed to air, not the surface it sticks to.
Other big progress has been preparing to put the engine back in. While waiting for the motor mounts to arrive, I have rearranged the shop, got the hoist in position, and the motor off the the stand (~18 months!). Also cleaned and assembled the lower bellhousing, and installed the flywheel, plus gathered all the required hardware ready for next weekend. The Megasquirt conversion needs a vacume signal to the MAP sensor inside the computer, so installed a small hardline bent 90deg through the firewall. I plan to tap the vacume signal off the trans vacume line, unless someone says otherwise?
Other small details like sealing the wiper motor case hole, firewall grommet for vacume lines, and some old stereo install holes in the floorboards under the seats. Plus a strange hole in the right-rear seat footwell - looks like somebody tried to jack up the car in this spot and the jack punched through like a can-opener. A little hammer work to put the metal back into place, and the Sika urethane top and bottom for rust prevention, and all is good.
The gauge panel has been out since Dec., waiting for some attention. Got all the LED conversion stuff coming, so while waiting started working on the parts that need cleaning or repair. The gauge light prisms had the old silver paint pretty faded and cracked, so got the razor blade out and scraped off the silvering - Mistake! I should have researched this first - found a post from MrMerlin that acetone will take off the silvering - could have saved me from scratching the prisms! I tried painting the outside face of 1 prism with chrome paint - it turned out grey - ugh! Looked at using aluminum foil, but not stretchy. Looked at Monokote, but the adhesive side is flat (not shiny). Carolyn suggested a silver mylar balloon material - it works pretty good! One balloon and a 1gr tube of superglue easily did all 3 prisms. I had to flame polish the scratches out of the surfaces, and I can now say that is a tricky thing to do! I takes a small torch, very good lighting, and extreme care to get this right without bubbling the plastic. I managed to get 1 prism decent, and the other 2 have bubbles. But, with the silver mylar in place, I think they will work just fine. I will also apply silver tape to the bottom of the gauge housing where the prism sits against to enhance the reflective path, and line the bulb pocket with a silver foil, trying to get as much light from the LED as possible into the prism, then keep it there until exit at the gauge end.
Also on the lathe have been trying to make gauge trim rings from ABS plastic instead of aluminum. With a bit of chrome paint, they look awesome! Yes, the same chrome paint tried on the prism - apparently it turns shiny chrome on the side exposed to air, not the surface it sticks to.
Other big progress has been preparing to put the engine back in. While waiting for the motor mounts to arrive, I have rearranged the shop, got the hoist in position, and the motor off the the stand (~18 months!). Also cleaned and assembled the lower bellhousing, and installed the flywheel, plus gathered all the required hardware ready for next weekend. The Megasquirt conversion needs a vacume signal to the MAP sensor inside the computer, so installed a small hardline bent 90deg through the firewall. I plan to tap the vacume signal off the trans vacume line, unless someone says otherwise?
Other small details like sealing the wiper motor case hole, firewall grommet for vacume lines, and some old stereo install holes in the floorboards under the seats. Plus a strange hole in the right-rear seat footwell - looks like somebody tried to jack up the car in this spot and the jack punched through like a can-opener. A little hammer work to put the metal back into place, and the Sika urethane top and bottom for rust prevention, and all is good.
05-21-2012, 10:44 PM
#186
Drifting
Wow...Thats some good stuff. I hope you won't mind me using some of your pics for Marvin's reassembly. Excellent job!!!! The insulation looks sooo nice.
05-27-2012, 10:02 PM
#189
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Thread Starter
Engine is installed! With lots of help from Carolyn's dad Ray - Thank You! Took about 3hrs to get it in place, but not a scratch anywhere, so very pleased with the day. Now on to the rest of the install - alternator, starter, wiring for these, then moving to the topside for all the MS3X wiring, hose connections..... Probably leave the cooling system parts for later just for ease of space in the engine bay. Must remember to tighten all the lower front suspension bolts after all the weight is back into the nose.
06-10-2012, 10:47 PM
#193
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Thread Starter
With the engine in, I had to make a plan for all the details so I wouldn't forget them! Focusing on the underside stuff first, then moving to the front of the engine bay so liquid systems can be tightened up. Waiting for a plating order to come back to install the alternator and PS pulleys, so working on the radiator and AC condensor and related fans. Again, tore everything apart to clean, lube and repaint. Also flushed the AC core with solvent multiple times, getting it ready for 134a, before cleaning and painting it a flat black.
Starter is installed, and the new wiring and route looks good. I ran all the wires to the lower LH side of the engine across the firewall, then down behind the brake booster, then forward through the crossmember brace to the alternator and oil level and pressure sensors. This is because the 14pin engine harness is gone, and I wanted a clean look to the wiring install. All the MS3X conversion wiring is being located from the firewall at engine centerline, then running forward along the coil brackets from there.
Still working on the Contour fan conversion, but the plan is to have 1 of the fans controlled by the stock temp sensor in the lower LH side of the radiator (through a relay and fuse), and the other is controlled by the MS3 computer which I already have the fuse and relay setup for. This gives me some assurance that if the radiator temp switch fails, I can still have some cooling from the computer controlled fan. Progress ......
PS. The small push-in type zip-tie fittings from the Ford Contour fan shroud look like they will work to replace our 30yr old harness zip ties around the engine bay, at least for the small ones. I didn't actually try one as I had clipped them all before realizing this, but nice to have an option for these.
Starter is installed, and the new wiring and route looks good. I ran all the wires to the lower LH side of the engine across the firewall, then down behind the brake booster, then forward through the crossmember brace to the alternator and oil level and pressure sensors. This is because the 14pin engine harness is gone, and I wanted a clean look to the wiring install. All the MS3X conversion wiring is being located from the firewall at engine centerline, then running forward along the coil brackets from there.
Still working on the Contour fan conversion, but the plan is to have 1 of the fans controlled by the stock temp sensor in the lower LH side of the radiator (through a relay and fuse), and the other is controlled by the MS3 computer which I already have the fuse and relay setup for. This gives me some assurance that if the radiator temp switch fails, I can still have some cooling from the computer controlled fan. Progress ......
PS. The small push-in type zip-tie fittings from the Ford Contour fan shroud look like they will work to replace our 30yr old harness zip ties around the engine bay, at least for the small ones. I didn't actually try one as I had clipped them all before realizing this, but nice to have an option for these.
06-10-2012, 11:29 PM
#195
Pro
Thread Starter
If you mean spark plug wires - I'm using stock LSx wire set - the length is nice for the coil position.
Last edited by BigAl1; 06-11-2012 at 09:22 AM.