Found a 88 S4
09-24-2010, 10:43 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
I'm anticipating $500-$1.5k worth of additional parts when I get in there, depending on condition of some items (e.g. rod bearings, cam chains, belt sprockets, water pump etc.). I'll also be repairing any harness issues with new connectors, terminals etc.
At the end of it, I'll have a car which is fully reliable as a daily driver (its intended duty), and drives very well.. the only bits I'd have concerns about potentially stranding me would be the fuel pump or ignition amplifiers (LH is already a JDS rebuild, otherwise that'd make the list).
I don't believe the reliability would necessarily be improved replacing some items which are functioning perfectly well with new ones (e.g. ISV).
09-24-2010, 11:07 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
^^^^^^^
Check back in w/me in two years. Would be interested in your experience.
MAF goes out... $300
Clutch wears out... $1000
Torque Tube - $500
Radiator - $800
Cracked headlight - $250
Cracked windshield - $500
Brake MC - Can't remember, but I know they're pricey!
Check back in w/me in two years. Would be interested in your experience.
MAF goes out... $300
Clutch wears out... $1000
Torque Tube - $500
Radiator - $800
Cracked headlight - $250
Cracked windshield - $500
Brake MC - Can't remember, but I know they're pricey!
09-24-2010, 11:27 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
The Frenzy 14 next weekend will be holding a tech session covering Maintanence Trend & Extended Service.
The intents is to identify service items beyond what is covered in the WSM and beyond what Porsche could have anticipated. It's looking at all the main offenders of items which have met or exceeded their intended lifespan.
CPS replacement is not considered a service item w/a service interval per WSM. It is a common service item now as it has reached it's limit, roughly 20 years. Should one replace this item before it breaks? I suggest yes.
This applies to many things, which will be covered in full detail.
I believe all oil cooling lines fall into this category as well. Both engine and trans cooler lines can cause big issues to include engine seize or fire.
They have reached their lifespan limit. Wait to replace? No.
Costly? Yes $500 plus
(and folks who say that can get them rebuilt for $50 each, I'd ask if they'd expect them to last 20 years?)
09-24-2010, 11:41 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
25 years of heat cycling and oil makes stuff pretty skanky up under the intake.
Look at the crankcase breather hoses. They decompose into a soft pliable mass, at least on the S3.
The bosch boots crack and the terminal ends decompose like the insert in the trunk hatch does.
Age-defined midlife crisis, unless miles are very low.
Look at the crankcase breather hoses. They decompose into a soft pliable mass, at least on the S3.
The bosch boots crack and the terminal ends decompose like the insert in the trunk hatch does.
Age-defined midlife crisis, unless miles are very low.
09-25-2010, 12:25 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO USA
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Yes I've seen a TPS. No it was not filled with oil. I've even converted an S3 over to an S4 intake manifold. I also converted a 1982 air cooled Yamaha 750 to fuel injection with a lot of fab work and Microsquirt. I don't mind replacing parts that need replacement, but I also don't believe in trying to make an old car into a new car by replacing everything that moves or has plastic/rubber.
Let's say the car has 20K miles (yes, really low, but for sake of argument)... is that 22 year old ISV going to be much worse than one that's been sitting in a box on a shelf for several years? Not in my opinion. The torque on those things is pretty low. If I had a reason to pull the intake, I'd replace the hoses and clean out the ISV, but I wouldn't just toss it and spend $180 or so on a new one on the off chance it might pack up some day.
For the injectors, places like Cruzin Performance (http://www.cruzinperformance.com/) will do a very thorough cleaning and flow testing, with new seals and pintle caps, for less than $200 for the set. On the off chance that one or more of them don't spray or flow correctly after cleaning, this service will also tell you exactly which ones need to be replaced.
But, regardless, I just don't think we're going to agree on what our expectations are here. I'll inspect wear items, fix problems, and replace wear items while I'm fixing problems. I won't tear into working systems proactively. If the car is running and idling fine, and performance, emissions, and fuel economy look reasonable, I'm not going to tear apart the intake and start replacing things.
If the OP's goal is to have a decently driving, decently reliable, 22 year old car, then I think there's a good chance he can get that out of this car for $9K total, including the $4K for the car. If he wants a car that's in a state to run another five years and 60K miles with absolutely nothing else needed during that time but oil changes, then I think you're right about $10K plus of wholesale proactive parts replacement.
Let's say the car has 20K miles (yes, really low, but for sake of argument)... is that 22 year old ISV going to be much worse than one that's been sitting in a box on a shelf for several years? Not in my opinion. The torque on those things is pretty low. If I had a reason to pull the intake, I'd replace the hoses and clean out the ISV, but I wouldn't just toss it and spend $180 or so on a new one on the off chance it might pack up some day.
For the injectors, places like Cruzin Performance (http://www.cruzinperformance.com/) will do a very thorough cleaning and flow testing, with new seals and pintle caps, for less than $200 for the set. On the off chance that one or more of them don't spray or flow correctly after cleaning, this service will also tell you exactly which ones need to be replaced.
But, regardless, I just don't think we're going to agree on what our expectations are here. I'll inspect wear items, fix problems, and replace wear items while I'm fixing problems. I won't tear into working systems proactively. If the car is running and idling fine, and performance, emissions, and fuel economy look reasonable, I'm not going to tear apart the intake and start replacing things.
If the OP's goal is to have a decently driving, decently reliable, 22 year old car, then I think there's a good chance he can get that out of this car for $9K total, including the $4K for the car. If he wants a car that's in a state to run another five years and 60K miles with absolutely nothing else needed during that time but oil changes, then I think you're right about $10K plus of wholesale proactive parts replacement.
09-25-2010, 12:56 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok...went to take photos in good sunlight..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2880466...7624903151905/
-MOST of both seats movement controls work fine, just had to be more insistent on the switches..
-Sunroof does open and close, if you tap the headliner..
-Front and rear fans do in fact, have full speed control
-No heat from the system when engine warm
-No A/C as previously described
-Vent controls not entirely functional
-Minor tranny front seal leak
-Minor oil pan leak
-MM's yup, gone.
-Water pump seeps
-All "!" warnings, are Group B. No belt light, even if I reved up a bunch/etc.
-Tires ancient, cracked
-Brakes..will need done, just because
-VC gaskets leaking in the back, and the VC plugs leak some too.
-Noticed the rear bumper cover has been sprayed, photo shows some paint cracks and overspray on the dr side lenses too. But under there, I could see ZERO signs of any damage. All bolts and hardware appeared equally aged, and no odd angles/etc. But the bottom lip was not attached to the two braces anymore..but lined up nicely by hand.
-Found two VERY small dings near the fuel door
-Found one ding front drivers fender
-Missing trim piece near turn signal up front, pass side
-Odd slight curl on the back/pass hood edge..not easily seen most angles
-Rear drivers seat is way more dried out than any other, nobody sits there until recovered (also has odd hole)
-Headliner is in fantastic condition
-Other leather/bolsters are doing pretty nicely as well.
So..its not as bad as I thought last night..I took more time to cover more detail in better light.
Put $1k as a down, and CT Automotive (posche shop graced with Kirbort photo on the wall even) is the shop that did previous PPI work but didnt do the flexplate inspection for the 'last guy' when the car was listed for 6k. Im having them to that early next week.
And..the shop said that in their last inspection, it appeared that the pass side fuel system ran way richer than the drivers side..make any sense?
For all I know, the 1/4 tank of gas in the car now, has been there for 3yrs.
If that pans out as acceptable, will pay off the remaining 3k..and its mine.
Thanks to all with advice...many hours spent on here taking notes over the last few weeks, pays off.
Cant wait to do this:
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...%20Refresh.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2880466...7624903151905/
-MOST of both seats movement controls work fine, just had to be more insistent on the switches..
-Sunroof does open and close, if you tap the headliner..
-Front and rear fans do in fact, have full speed control
-No heat from the system when engine warm
-No A/C as previously described
-Vent controls not entirely functional
-Minor tranny front seal leak
-Minor oil pan leak
-MM's yup, gone.
-Water pump seeps
-All "!" warnings, are Group B. No belt light, even if I reved up a bunch/etc.
-Tires ancient, cracked
-Brakes..will need done, just because
-VC gaskets leaking in the back, and the VC plugs leak some too.
-Noticed the rear bumper cover has been sprayed, photo shows some paint cracks and overspray on the dr side lenses too. But under there, I could see ZERO signs of any damage. All bolts and hardware appeared equally aged, and no odd angles/etc. But the bottom lip was not attached to the two braces anymore..but lined up nicely by hand.
-Found two VERY small dings near the fuel door
-Found one ding front drivers fender
-Missing trim piece near turn signal up front, pass side
-Odd slight curl on the back/pass hood edge..not easily seen most angles
-Rear drivers seat is way more dried out than any other, nobody sits there until recovered (also has odd hole)
-Headliner is in fantastic condition
-Other leather/bolsters are doing pretty nicely as well.
So..its not as bad as I thought last night..I took more time to cover more detail in better light.
Put $1k as a down, and CT Automotive (posche shop graced with Kirbort photo on the wall even) is the shop that did previous PPI work but didnt do the flexplate inspection for the 'last guy' when the car was listed for 6k. Im having them to that early next week.
And..the shop said that in their last inspection, it appeared that the pass side fuel system ran way richer than the drivers side..make any sense?
For all I know, the 1/4 tank of gas in the car now, has been there for 3yrs.
If that pans out as acceptable, will pay off the remaining 3k..and its mine.
Thanks to all with advice...many hours spent on here taking notes over the last few weeks, pays off.
Cant wait to do this:
http://dwaynesgarage.norcal928.org/1...%20Refresh.htm
09-25-2010, 01:07 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
Nice. If this car was local to me, i would have put a deposit down immediately and I don't even like white cars. I do, however, love the can can red interior. 12 way heated seats is a bonus also. Jim is right that mucho maintenance is in your future, but that is more often true than not unless you buy from an enthusiast anyways.
09-25-2010, 06:19 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
Congrats on your purchase!
I really appreciate you efforts in due dilligence and intent to do a PPI.
Just being nosey here, is the PPI to help establish a service baseline and plan, or is the deal contingent on it?
FWIW, if I really new how deep the maintenance issues were on my car (looking thru the crystal ball),
I would have held off on items not related to reliability and longevity,
ie 930 steering wheel, Champagne door inserts, CIII wheels, etc.
OTOH, the goodies along the way was what kept me enthused, and kept me wrencing.
Also, I may have considered I different approach as well. Might have laid up the car for a year or so and performed a rather systematic rehab, ala MrMerlin (Stan K). Instead, I drove it in between which proved to be unreliable.
In closing, I don't believe in an absolute parts replacement methodology. In some cases yes, in others, no.
Requires a holistic assement of current state of vehicle, thorough review of service records, take the car out for a drive or two (and listen closely), and pay close attention to maintenance trends on rennlist.
I'm very excited for you. Keep us posted, and help us understand how you plan to approach "getting to know" your fine 928!
I really appreciate you efforts in due dilligence and intent to do a PPI.
Just being nosey here, is the PPI to help establish a service baseline and plan, or is the deal contingent on it?
FWIW, if I really new how deep the maintenance issues were on my car (looking thru the crystal ball),
I would have held off on items not related to reliability and longevity,
ie 930 steering wheel, Champagne door inserts, CIII wheels, etc.
OTOH, the goodies along the way was what kept me enthused, and kept me wrencing.
Also, I may have considered I different approach as well. Might have laid up the car for a year or so and performed a rather systematic rehab, ala MrMerlin (Stan K). Instead, I drove it in between which proved to be unreliable.
In closing, I don't believe in an absolute parts replacement methodology. In some cases yes, in others, no.
Requires a holistic assement of current state of vehicle, thorough review of service records, take the car out for a drive or two (and listen closely), and pay close attention to maintenance trends on rennlist.
I'm very excited for you. Keep us posted, and help us understand how you plan to approach "getting to know" your fine 928!
09-25-2010, 11:03 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The full purchase is contingent on the PPI showing that the crank play is withinn spec...unless its absolutely shot, I dont see NOT buying this car.
Ive seen the title paperwork, its all clean now, the shop had to go the mechanics lien route to get it, the PO in Ohio shipped the car without it, and then dissapeared..and the car then passed hands in an estate.
Its an extremely hard decision..buy it & park/refresh it, or drive it off and on while I build up the refresh parts list and prepare for most every contingency that I can before digging in.
Either way, FIRST job is a full fluids flush, and continue to assess from that.
Ive seen the title paperwork, its all clean now, the shop had to go the mechanics lien route to get it, the PO in Ohio shipped the car without it, and then dissapeared..and the car then passed hands in an estate.
Its an extremely hard decision..buy it & park/refresh it, or drive it off and on while I build up the refresh parts list and prepare for most every contingency that I can before digging in.
Either way, FIRST job is a full fluids flush, and continue to assess from that.
09-25-2010, 01:24 PM
#40
Race Car
The full purchase is contingent on the PPI showing that the crank play is withinn spec...unless its absolutely shot, I dont see NOT buying this car.
Ive seen the title paperwork, its all clean now, the shop had to go the mechanics lien route to get it, the PO in Ohio shipped the car without it, and then dissapeared..and the car then passed hands in an estate.
Its an extremely hard decision..buy it & park/refresh it, or drive it off and on while I build up the refresh parts list and prepare for most every contingency that I can before digging in.
Either way, FIRST job is a full fluids flush, and continue to assess from that.
Ive seen the title paperwork, its all clean now, the shop had to go the mechanics lien route to get it, the PO in Ohio shipped the car without it, and then dissapeared..and the car then passed hands in an estate.
Its an extremely hard decision..buy it & park/refresh it, or drive it off and on while I build up the refresh parts list and prepare for most every contingency that I can before digging in.
Either way, FIRST job is a full fluids flush, and continue to assess from that.
Next are fuel lines; then heater control valve and vacuum lines.
After the fluid flush you'll know if it's leaking anywhere...
The dealer who had my car "detailed the $h1+" out of the engine bay to clean off all the leaky fluids...
I'm looking at $7-8K to get it to mechanically/safety sound. Then I take on the interior/radio and paint fix-ups...then consider supercharging...
I'll be upside down on day one. But it will be my car (unless someone wants to make me an offer--engine starts every time and idles perfectly but loaded with lots of deferred maintenance).
I only consider selling it since we are now selling the house and moving to Manhattan and won't have a garage or time to work on it myself.
Michael
09-25-2010, 01:29 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Purchases as-is, they have zero interest..just to move the car as it's just in their lap, and they dont want it.
Im cool with that.
Will have the final PPI results mid week.
Im cool with that.
Will have the final PPI results mid week.
09-25-2010, 10:37 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Car looks great for the money if the flex plate checks out. WP, TB, tensioner, fuel lines to start. Clean the grounds and check the relay/fuse panel for signs of water. Trace down the vacuum leaks.
Good luck!
Good luck!
09-25-2010, 10:58 PM
#45
Race Car
Finally looked at the pix. Nice car-fair price. You can either use Dr. Colorchip to clean up the paint or get it painted. Since it's Grand Prix White either is a good option and paint is easy to match.
Good luck!
Michael
Good luck!
Michael