Confused on removal of late door lock cylinder
09-08-2010, 04:02 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Confused on removal of late door lock cylinder
After a search here and looking at the WSM I am still not clear on how to remove my driver door lock cylinder. I recall doing it on an early ('78) car while in the parking lot of a lock shop many years ago. Needed only an allen wrench and small screwdriver. My '90 GT seems not so simple. It appears that the door panel must be removed. Is that correct? I can see no way to remove the actuating rod from the ball from the outside. Help!
09-08-2010, 04:15 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
I just had the same problem. Removing the door panel is not the answer. Believe me I know from experience.
Once you have the allen bolt and nut out, you need to pull on the lock (with the key in it is easier) and twist it out. The WSM shows that you can pull the lock out far enough to get the nylon rod out. I couldn't. I just twisted the lock until the actuator arm popped off. I tied a wire around it first so the rod wouldn't drop down inside the door.
Good luck.
Once you have the allen bolt and nut out, you need to pull on the lock (with the key in it is easier) and twist it out. The WSM shows that you can pull the lock out far enough to get the nylon rod out. I couldn't. I just twisted the lock until the actuator arm popped off. I tied a wire around it first so the rod wouldn't drop down inside the door.
Good luck.
09-08-2010, 04:41 PM
#3
Team Owner
you need to remove the door panel then disconnect the harness that runs along the top of the door this is for the lock cylinder,
then remove the allen bolt at the rear edge of the door its usually covered with a rubber plug,
slide the cylinder out till you can see the white pushrod slip it off the lock with a small screwdriver the other will stay connected.
slide the whole assembly out with the harness,
take pictures if your taking the lock apart
then remove the allen bolt at the rear edge of the door its usually covered with a rubber plug,
slide the cylinder out till you can see the white pushrod slip it off the lock with a small screwdriver the other will stay connected.
slide the whole assembly out with the harness,
take pictures if your taking the lock apart
09-08-2010, 08:05 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Its possible to get it out without removing the door panel.. I've done it both ways, but these days I take the door panel off as its much easier to pop the plastic arm off the ball from inside. When I did it with the panel in-place, I used a small screwdriver with a bend in the end to pry apart the slot and pull it off the ball..very fiddly. The time I spent doing that the first time is longer than it takes me to remove the door panel.
The alarm harness can be left in place - it unscrews from the rear of the lock cylinder.. just don't lose the little brass spring inside the switch assembly - it pops out.
See attached pics from the first time I did this, with the door panel left on - shows the alarm contact switch, and then also the parts of an alarm lock including the 2-tumbler barrel for the alarm part at the end, with the contact wiper on it. Just tape the alarm harness so it doesn't fall back inside the door
The alarm harness can be left in place - it unscrews from the rear of the lock cylinder.. just don't lose the little brass spring inside the switch assembly - it pops out.
See attached pics from the first time I did this, with the door panel left on - shows the alarm contact switch, and then also the parts of an alarm lock including the 2-tumbler barrel for the alarm part at the end, with the contact wiper on it. Just tape the alarm harness so it doesn't fall back inside the door
09-08-2010, 08:09 PM
#5
As said, it is not worth taking the door panel off.
Non-alarm cars are simple, but those with, are a bit more of an issue. Then again, if the issue is with the alarm portion of the lock, you can take the door insert out, and get to it with a bit of wiggling.
Non-alarm cars are simple, but those with, are a bit more of an issue. Then again, if the issue is with the alarm portion of the lock, you can take the door insert out, and get to it with a bit of wiggling.
09-08-2010, 08:22 PM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
The pics are very helpful Hilton.
I am beginning to think I don't know what I have, alarm or no. My first concern is the fact that the driver side key does not lock the passenger side, but it does unlock it. Isn't there an electrical switch on the lock that controls that, along with the alarm (if I have one)?
My second concern is that I need to remove the passenger cylinder as I wish to re-key it to match the driver side lock.
I am beginning to think I don't know what I have, alarm or no. My first concern is the fact that the driver side key does not lock the passenger side, but it does unlock it. Isn't there an electrical switch on the lock that controls that, along with the alarm (if I have one)?
My second concern is that I need to remove the passenger cylinder as I wish to re-key it to match the driver side lock.
09-08-2010, 08:39 PM
#7
Team Owner
if you have a short key then you dont have an alarm .
if you have a long key then you should have an alarm system.
The longer key would go into the part thats after the circular spring that Hilton kindly posted.
FWIW I have had some issues getting the small phillips screws out of the elex portion of the lock.
you may have to use a small pair of vice grips to get the head of the screw loose,
putting the lock cylinder into a vise is helpful
if you have a long key then you should have an alarm system.
The longer key would go into the part thats after the circular spring that Hilton kindly posted.
FWIW I have had some issues getting the small phillips screws out of the elex portion of the lock.
you may have to use a small pair of vice grips to get the head of the screw loose,
putting the lock cylinder into a vise is helpful
Trending Topics
09-08-2010, 08:47 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
Jim, if its your '90, it has alarm, as by then it was standard. Your car will have the flashing LED nibs on top of the door locks.
If the key unlocks, but won't lock, then my first guess would be that your passenger lock is gummed up with dried, caked grease and won't let you turn it the lock direction.
My second guess would be that someone previously "fixed" a non-matching lock by filing the tumblers and didn't quite get it right when turning the key the other way (places stress on a different end of the tumbler).
Taking the door panel off if a 5-minute job.. once you've done it once. The first time is, like many jobs on a 928, intimidating, but needn't be.
Here's a write-up by Dan (Podguy) on door panel removal:
http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/te...ior/panels.htm
If the key unlocks, but won't lock, then my first guess would be that your passenger lock is gummed up with dried, caked grease and won't let you turn it the lock direction.
My second guess would be that someone previously "fixed" a non-matching lock by filing the tumblers and didn't quite get it right when turning the key the other way (places stress on a different end of the tumbler).
Taking the door panel off if a 5-minute job.. once you've done it once. The first time is, like many jobs on a 928, intimidating, but needn't be.
Here's a write-up by Dan (Podguy) on door panel removal:
http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/te...ior/panels.htm
The pics are very helpful Hilton.
I am beginning to think I don't know what I have, alarm or no. My first concern is the fact that the driver side key does not lock the passenger side, but it does unlock it. Isn't there an electrical switch on the lock that controls that, along with the alarm (if I have one)?
My second concern is that I need to remove the passenger cylinder as I wish to re-key it to match the driver side lock.
I am beginning to think I don't know what I have, alarm or no. My first concern is the fact that the driver side key does not lock the passenger side, but it does unlock it. Isn't there an electrical switch on the lock that controls that, along with the alarm (if I have one)?
My second concern is that I need to remove the passenger cylinder as I wish to re-key it to match the driver side lock.
09-08-2010, 09:09 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
I've had several locks that would turn in one direction, but not the other. Its a product of wear.
Sometimes what happens is the steel key wears the inner contact surfaces of individual tumblers.
Then, the outer edge of the tumbler may not recede below the outer diameter.
And/or, a burr forms on on the inner part of the tumbler impedes the inner part from sliding into inner diameter of the tumbler holder. Gets real bad when somebody jams a regular key in these locks because the key will really bend and cut the inner part of the tumbler.
It all gets clear when you disassemble and inspect.
I polish the side of each tumbler with 600 paper to remove any burring.
Bill Ball reported having to file the outside edges of some tumblers on a hatch lock to allow for inner tumbler wear or key wear.
You can sacrifice the alarm tumblers and turn a car into a non-alarm version, then re-use those tumblers on rekying or replacing tumblers. Keep a few extra locks for parts.
Sometimes what happens is the steel key wears the inner contact surfaces of individual tumblers.
Then, the outer edge of the tumbler may not recede below the outer diameter.
And/or, a burr forms on on the inner part of the tumbler impedes the inner part from sliding into inner diameter of the tumbler holder. Gets real bad when somebody jams a regular key in these locks because the key will really bend and cut the inner part of the tumbler.
It all gets clear when you disassemble and inspect.
I polish the side of each tumbler with 600 paper to remove any burring.
Bill Ball reported having to file the outside edges of some tumblers on a hatch lock to allow for inner tumbler wear or key wear.
You can sacrifice the alarm tumblers and turn a car into a non-alarm version, then re-use those tumblers on rekying or replacing tumblers. Keep a few extra locks for parts.
09-08-2010, 11:43 PM
#10
Pro
Thread Starter
The key in the driver door works fine. It will not remotely lock the passenger door. It will remotely unlock the passenger door, after I have locked it with the ****. That's why I think the "unlock" message is getting there but the "lock" is not.
Last edited by Jim Chambers; 09-09-2010 at 10:53 AM.
11-10-2015, 04:56 PM
#11
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sproat Lake
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to add some info
Great thread as I am working on the '93 GTS. I had a problem with the driver's door lock. Turns out (years ago) a new dealer key I received got stuck & when yanking out, this caused the alarm section of the lock to be out of sync with the main lock. Therefore key could not be fully inserted.
Fixes:
1. To pull the tumbler from the lock body without the key being able to be fully inserted, I drilled small "rescue" holes right beside & in slight contact with each pin. Then used the holes to pry the pins out. (looks like an "8") Worked great.
2. Pulling it all apart the lock rod actuator (with ball) was cracked. Lucky had some parts here to fix with.
3. I filed and sanded the NEW key to match up with the old, as the old key worked way better on all locks. I also filed and sanded the lock tumbler pieces (quite a lot) on careful inspection with both keys. Got flawlessly smooth operation without any hint of hanging up.
4. The circular return spring gets hooked up and preloaded onto the tumbler before inserting into the lock. Took me a bit to figure that one out.
5. Later cars? have metal shields in place, so it is impossible to work on the white lock rod/internals, with the door panel removed. I would have had to remove much more. Not wanting to do that, I did manage to get the white lock rod back onto the key lock working through the small bolt access hole at the end of the door( allen key screw washer removed). I used a small holding screw, heat gun and modified the rod slightly to finally snap it back on.
PS I figure I could have come up with a plan to fix the Hubble telescope in situ or similar by the time I got done tho.
Fixes:
1. To pull the tumbler from the lock body without the key being able to be fully inserted, I drilled small "rescue" holes right beside & in slight contact with each pin. Then used the holes to pry the pins out. (looks like an "8") Worked great.
2. Pulling it all apart the lock rod actuator (with ball) was cracked. Lucky had some parts here to fix with.
3. I filed and sanded the NEW key to match up with the old, as the old key worked way better on all locks. I also filed and sanded the lock tumbler pieces (quite a lot) on careful inspection with both keys. Got flawlessly smooth operation without any hint of hanging up.
4. The circular return spring gets hooked up and preloaded onto the tumbler before inserting into the lock. Took me a bit to figure that one out.
5. Later cars? have metal shields in place, so it is impossible to work on the white lock rod/internals, with the door panel removed. I would have had to remove much more. Not wanting to do that, I did manage to get the white lock rod back onto the key lock working through the small bolt access hole at the end of the door( allen key screw washer removed). I used a small holding screw, heat gun and modified the rod slightly to finally snap it back on.
PS I figure I could have come up with a plan to fix the Hubble telescope in situ or similar by the time I got done tho.
