backnblack

Thanks AO I'll let you guys know. As I consider myself greatful for how my life is I don't find myself lucky in this since, that would be like lottery lucky. but I guess you don't know if you don't play, right.

Cheers
Matt

blown 87

I agree, you may have learned a lesson that has cost others fingers and other parts, do not drink while working on things.

Don't give up, help is out there.

backnblack

There lies the real problem! The only time I can enjoy a little drink is when I’m In my garage kingdom working on something LOL. And no I don’t mix power tools /running motors /saws /hammers , after I have mixed a martini

backnblack

Well after coming into work and the guys giving me a bunch of crap about this I guess I should take responsibility for what I did and try to fix it.
As much as I want to blame George Bush (joke) I have no one to blame but myself I know what I did wrong ( twice ) But I do not know how to get back to the starting point that I need to be at.

I don't want to believe that I have done any real damage to the valves yet but I cannot turn the motor by hand. I can feel it hit at a certain spot and it stops.

I don't think I am on TDC #1cylinder (this is one of the things I know I did wrong )
After I take everything back apart ( Belt on or off ) How or where can I turn the cams so that I can turn the crank to the proper position to start all over from scratch.

Thanks guys for your support it means allot to me.

Bertrand Daoust

Don't feel bad about your misadventure. Those thing can happen to anybody.

Fix it and you will feel prouder than ever to have brought you car back to life.

I can't help you mutch but I'm sure you will get ALL the technical support you need on Rennlist.
Many guys here are simply amazing.
Way better than many Porsche dealers.

So take all the time that you need and make it roll again!

Everything will go well.

...And keep the Martini for once your day is over...

auzivision

If you can't turn the crank by hand, don't try forcing it... remove the timing belt and see if you can get the cams rotated into the 45 degree position (only turning clockwise). See pics below to get a better idea of what uyou are trying to achieve.

Cams in TDC:


Cams at 45:


At the 45 position, the crank can be turned without pistons hitting valves. My guess is the cam won’t want to turn because the valves are bent. You would expect a little pressure turning cams to over come springs, but don’t force them. Might try moving the repositioning the crank to a different position if they bind… pretty much a game of hit or miss.

backnblack

Hello Kurt,
That is the position the cams are in now at the 45deg. marks ( like in the 2nd picture ) and I get about a 1/4 turn on the crank before it feels like I'm hitting something.

Regards
Matt

Glen McCartney

Matt,

I would think the best way to move forward wold be to pull the cams so that all the valves close and then move crank to 45 degree position and re-install the cams.

Wondering if a leak down test can be performed with the cams pulled to see if there are any cylinders with bent valves. Others would know better than I.

Imo000

Do you have the spark plugs out?

SQLGuy

Yes, it can, and is a good way to see whether/where there are bent valves.

Imo000

A simple compresson test with the cams out is faster.

backnblack

No that's how this whole thing started, not taking the plug out and making sure I was on TDC#1

But as soon as I can get the crank to turn enough to check that I will be pulling the plug.

UKKid35

Pull all the plugs straight away, then you know you are not dealing with compression so it will easier to feel the crank.

I managed to make a similar fckup during my rebuild because I didn't put the balancer back on and assumed I was at 45 BTDC when in fact I was at TDC. However, I still managed to rescue the engine without pulling the cams. Nevertheless, if that is an option it is definitely the answer.

The problem is that you can spin the cams when the engine is at 45 BTDC, but AFAIK there is no cam position where you can safely spin the crank.

Don't give up, just go really slowly, and coax the crank to 45 BTDC and then you are safe. Obviously there is the possibility that damage has already been done, but that is not a certainty as I can attest.

jcorenman

I do not believe that this is correct. With the belt off (cams not turning) some of the valves will always be open, and the crank cannot be turned without pistons hitting valves, somewhere.

Matt, can you turn the crank -- either way-- to line up the 45-degree mark? (Turning the engine backwards is verbotten because the belt can skip, but the belt is either off or messed up anyway).

With the crank at 45-degrees, then all of the pistons are far enough down the cylinder that it is safe to rotate the cams without interference.

What you want to do then, with the crank at 45-degrees and the belt off, is rotate each cam clockwise to the corresponding 45-degree mark and then reinstall the belt-- see Kurt's second picture "Cams at 45"-- the notch in the sprocket is about 3 teeth to the left of the notch on the rear cover (remember that the cam turns once for every two revolutions of he crank).

Then, with the belt on correctly, turn the engine over by hand (always clockwise, and without spark plugs) to double-check the marks at 0-deg TDC. If all that checks then you can crank the engine and check compression-- that will tell you if the valves are ok.

auzivision

Sorry for the bad info, definitely the opposite of what I said is true... cams can turn, but not the crank. So the object still is to get the both the crank and cams into the 45 degree position, just in the opposite order… first work on getting the crank there, then the cams will be easy.

However, getting the crank to 45 is going to take a trick. It’s still going to be a series of hit an miss until you get both into the 45 position. With the belt off and the plug out, you might be able to feel yourself around. Taking the cams off would be one way to over come this dilemma.

What other ideas to people have out there to get the crank to 45?



As indicated on my post one picture is at TDC and the other is at 45-degrees