Thinking of Selling the GT for Something Newer
06-29-2010, 11:48 PM
#91
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06-30-2010, 02:20 AM
#93
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06-30-2010, 09:30 AM
#95
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Right on! Great car, though I prefer pre-2001 w/the S52 for simplicity. That S54 is sick and more complex.
Drove a highly modified '98 M-coupe the other day. I think he said it was putting down 300/300 or there-abouts. Definitely felt spunky and would've given Perl a run on the short end.
The 2001-2002 would be the one to get for long-term collectability due to the motor and low-volume production (690)
All M-coupes have an inherent rear chassis weakness issue (esp. when modified) which have many aftermarket remdies.
Too bad, because I have a friend who's selling a '95 M edition w/40K miles. Supercharged and WELL sorted. YUM! 
Drove a highly modified '98 M-coupe the other day. I think he said it was putting down 300/300 or there-abouts. Definitely felt spunky and would've given Perl a run on the short end.
The 2001-2002 would be the one to get for long-term collectability due to the motor and low-volume production (690)
All M-coupes have an inherent rear chassis weakness issue (esp. when modified) which have many aftermarket remdies.
Something I never brought up earlier. When I was 15 I wanted a Miata because it captured everything I wanted from a car. Fun with no gimmicks. I didn't love the styling but I didn't care. Unfortunately I never did buy it as it wasn't practical and the dream faded from memory....
06-30-2010, 09:46 AM
#96
Nordschleife Master
But why does the 996 Turbo trade so cheap then? Are there engine problems with the turbo engine as well?
I think the engine problems/supercessions killed these cars...not the headlights. The cars fell in value and the replacement engines continue to go up. The current cost of a Porsche replacement engine alone exceeds the value of most of these cars....and since virtually everything inside the engine has been superceeded, the guys that are fixing these engines "outside the Porsche factory" are essentially building engines that will run long enough for one to sell the car.
That senario is "French" for junk.
That senario is "French" for junk.
06-30-2010, 10:17 AM
#97
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Production numbers didn't help any, they simply made almost twice as many 996's versus 993's, same for Turbo's. For this and other reasons, the last of the air cooled cars will command more in the long run than their water cooled brothers, at least for a few generations.
IIRC the 996 Turbo is a completly different engine.
Then you have my friends 996:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-camshaft.html
06-30-2010, 11:45 AM
#98
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Wow this was a twisty thread to read through.
Afshin,
To start i hope you don't sell the 928 until we have a chance to meet up at a concours. I have been hoping we would meet at one for a number of events but we always seem to miss each other. I am sure we would have fun competing.
With that said my take on the AM. Both the DB9 and vantage are drop dead gorgeous cars. Stunning in every sense. The DB9 I found to be claustrophobic in. Even the convertible. I am not small and the doors sit to high on my sides making me feel like I am sitting in a hole. Just me maybe but I have heard others say the same. The vantage is a little more comfortable but not much although feel wise it just feels better to me. More connected to the road and more responsive. I would call the DB9 a GT vs the vantage which is more of a sport GT. I would place the GTS between the the DB9 and Vantage although I feel more connected to the road in the GTS.
The Boxster is a Boxster, S or not. The base boxster's I dislike just like the base Cayman but even more so. Numb to drive but I am used to far more thrilling Porsche's. Many love them just not for me. The Boxster spyder is an entirely different animal. i would seriously consider owning. Powerful and fun almost like a soft top Cayman S. I like the lines far better also. You need to drive this car extensively to get a real feel for it.
The others suggested the F355's nice cars but IMO there are so many other cars for the same money out there that will thrill as much and not be so costly to maintain. Never liked the steering wheel angle in those cars but again that is me.
I agree with what other say including tv about the 911's. I love my GTS but it is not the exciting ride either my C2 or turbo is. The GTS is my first choice for a long distance drive open highways or twisty roads where comfort and performance are required. The 911's are my first choice for all out spirited driving. Not that the GTS can't perform because it can but you have to push it to do so. In comparison it is lethargic until you force the peddle to the floor. The 911's just go and go with minimal effort. Although I find the 996's on up to be less than connected to the road. They are nice but nothing like the 964T or 993TT's for road feel and excitement.
The 996TT motor as others were saying is nothing more than a modified version of what is in my 964 turbo. Same case slightly different internals with water jacketed heads and electronics. I agree with others if you can get passed the headlights they are an amazing car for the money. Where else can you get that kind of performance in a reliable car for between $35 and $60k today. For the record the reason why they are so cheap is simple. Mass production and cheap lease deals. They made far more 996TT's than they did all previous turbos combined possibly more than double total quantity. They all came off lease at the same time and at one point there were more 996TT's on Ebay for sale than there were 94 turbos or GTS made. This killed their value along with similar occurrence with the 997TT. The 997TT is superior car and is coming down in price quickly due to too many produced. I have seen them in the price range of a boxster spyder which is something else to consider.
To group an SLS into this is like throwing in a CGT. Way different animal and far to costly, electronics also have a lot to do with how these cars perform.
IMO if you want more of a thrill ride car the one to look for is either the 996 GT2 later model or the 996GT3 RS. Both of these are completely different but both are some of the better modern Porsche's made with some of the raw old school feel of cars like my turbo but much of the modern refinements you expect from newer cars.
Good Luck with your decision. It is a tough one and no matter what you decide I can assure you, you will always look back at your car and say why did I sell it. You have put so much of yourself into that car that it is tough for any newer car to compare. Although I am sure you will do what feels right.
Afshin,
To start i hope you don't sell the 928 until we have a chance to meet up at a concours. I have been hoping we would meet at one for a number of events but we always seem to miss each other. I am sure we would have fun competing.
With that said my take on the AM. Both the DB9 and vantage are drop dead gorgeous cars. Stunning in every sense. The DB9 I found to be claustrophobic in. Even the convertible. I am not small and the doors sit to high on my sides making me feel like I am sitting in a hole. Just me maybe but I have heard others say the same. The vantage is a little more comfortable but not much although feel wise it just feels better to me. More connected to the road and more responsive. I would call the DB9 a GT vs the vantage which is more of a sport GT. I would place the GTS between the the DB9 and Vantage although I feel more connected to the road in the GTS.
The Boxster is a Boxster, S or not. The base boxster's I dislike just like the base Cayman but even more so. Numb to drive but I am used to far more thrilling Porsche's. Many love them just not for me. The Boxster spyder is an entirely different animal. i would seriously consider owning. Powerful and fun almost like a soft top Cayman S. I like the lines far better also. You need to drive this car extensively to get a real feel for it.
The others suggested the F355's nice cars but IMO there are so many other cars for the same money out there that will thrill as much and not be so costly to maintain. Never liked the steering wheel angle in those cars but again that is me.
I agree with what other say including tv about the 911's. I love my GTS but it is not the exciting ride either my C2 or turbo is. The GTS is my first choice for a long distance drive open highways or twisty roads where comfort and performance are required. The 911's are my first choice for all out spirited driving. Not that the GTS can't perform because it can but you have to push it to do so. In comparison it is lethargic until you force the peddle to the floor. The 911's just go and go with minimal effort. Although I find the 996's on up to be less than connected to the road. They are nice but nothing like the 964T or 993TT's for road feel and excitement.
The 996TT motor as others were saying is nothing more than a modified version of what is in my 964 turbo. Same case slightly different internals with water jacketed heads and electronics. I agree with others if you can get passed the headlights they are an amazing car for the money. Where else can you get that kind of performance in a reliable car for between $35 and $60k today. For the record the reason why they are so cheap is simple. Mass production and cheap lease deals. They made far more 996TT's than they did all previous turbos combined possibly more than double total quantity. They all came off lease at the same time and at one point there were more 996TT's on Ebay for sale than there were 94 turbos or GTS made. This killed their value along with similar occurrence with the 997TT. The 997TT is superior car and is coming down in price quickly due to too many produced. I have seen them in the price range of a boxster spyder which is something else to consider.
To group an SLS into this is like throwing in a CGT. Way different animal and far to costly, electronics also have a lot to do with how these cars perform.
IMO if you want more of a thrill ride car the one to look for is either the 996 GT2 later model or the 996GT3 RS. Both of these are completely different but both are some of the better modern Porsche's made with some of the raw old school feel of cars like my turbo but much of the modern refinements you expect from newer cars.
Good Luck with your decision. It is a tough one and no matter what you decide I can assure you, you will always look back at your car and say why did I sell it. You have put so much of yourself into that car that it is tough for any newer car to compare. Although I am sure you will do what feels right.
06-30-2010, 11:57 AM
#99
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Have you driven one? The tilt steering wheel has been noted as one of the key improvements the 355 has over previous Ferrari's.
06-30-2010, 12:26 PM
#100
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No the turbo engine was different. It didnt have the NA issues... I dont know where you are getting yoru numbers but I still cant afford a turbo.... They are not that cheap
06-30-2010, 01:17 PM
#101
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I think the engine problems/supercessions killed these cars...not the headlights. The cars fell in value and the replacement engines continue to go up. The current cost of a Porsche replacement engine alone exceeds the value of most of these cars....and since virtually everything inside the engine has been superceeded, the guys that are fixing these engines "outside the Porsche factory" are essentially building engines that will run long enough for one to sell the car.
06-30-2010, 01:26 PM
#102
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Friend of mine recently paid about 50% more for a 993TT than an equal condition / mileage 996TT would go for. His first Porsche (he has a warehouse of restored muscle cars). I was a bit surprised when he showed up in it. I asked why / how he came to this car he said: "I was told this was the 911 to buy".
He could care less about the headlights.
That's the botton line, the 993TT is considered the best and the end of a era. No matter how much faster, more reliable, quality etc.... the 996 might be, it's still not a 993TT. You also have the 997TT on the other side pushing the value down.
I'm willing to bet the 993TT will sustain their value over the 997TT in the long run.
Similar reasons why the 928GTS sells for so much more than an S4/GT. We all know you can buy an S4/GT, add some fenders, mirrors, boost and you have a car that has the looks and will bury the performance of a stock GTS for similar or less money.
It's still not going to be worth anywhere near a comparable conditon 93-95.
06-30-2010, 01:51 PM
#103
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Wow this was a twisty thread to read through.
Afshin,
To start i hope you don't sell the 928 until we have a chance to meet up at a concours. I have been hoping we would meet at one for a number of events but we always seem to miss each other. I am sure we would have fun competing.
With that said my take on the AM. Both the DB9 and vantage are drop dead gorgeous cars. Stunning in every sense. The DB9 I found to be claustrophobic in. Even the convertible. I am not small and the doors sit to high on my sides making me feel like I am sitting in a hole. Just me maybe but I have heard others say the same. The vantage is a little more comfortable but not much although feel wise it just feels better to me. More connected to the road and more responsive. I would call the DB9 a GT vs the vantage which is more of a sport GT. I would place the GTS between the the DB9 and Vantage although I feel more connected to the road in the GTS.
The Boxster is a Boxster, S or not. The base boxster's I dislike just like the base Cayman but even more so. Numb to drive but I am used to far more thrilling Porsche's. Many love them just not for me. The Boxster spyder is an entirely different animal. i would seriously consider owning. Powerful and fun almost like a soft top Cayman S. I like the lines far better also. You need to drive this car extensively to get a real feel for it.
The others suggested the F355's nice cars but IMO there are so many other cars for the same money out there that will thrill as much and not be so costly to maintain. Never liked the steering wheel angle in those cars but again that is me.
I agree with what other say including tv about the 911's. I love my GTS but it is not the exciting ride either my C2 or turbo is. The GTS is my first choice for a long distance drive open highways or twisty roads where comfort and performance are required. The 911's are my first choice for all out spirited driving. Not that the GTS can't perform because it can but you have to push it to do so. In comparison it is lethargic until you force the peddle to the floor. The 911's just go and go with minimal effort. Although I find the 996's on up to be less than connected to the road. They are nice but nothing like the 964T or 993TT's for road feel and excitement.
The 996TT motor as others were saying is nothing more than a modified version of what is in my 964 turbo. Same case slightly different internals with water jacketed heads and electronics. I agree with others if you can get passed the headlights they are an amazing car for the money. Where else can you get that kind of performance in a reliable car for between $35 and $60k today. For the record the reason why they are so cheap is simple. Mass production and cheap lease deals. They made far more 996TT's than they did all previous turbos combined possibly more than double total quantity. They all came off lease at the same time and at one point there were more 996TT's on Ebay for sale than there were 94 turbos or GTS made. This killed their value along with similar occurrence with the 997TT. The 997TT is superior car and is coming down in price quickly due to too many produced. I have seen them in the price range of a boxster spyder which is something else to consider.
To group an SLS into this is like throwing in a CGT. Way different animal and far to costly, electronics also have a lot to do with how these cars perform.
IMO if you want more of a thrill ride car the one to look for is either the 996 GT2 later model or the 996GT3 RS. Both of these are completely different but both are some of the better modern Porsche's made with some of the raw old school feel of cars like my turbo but much of the modern refinements you expect from newer cars.
Good Luck with your decision. It is a tough one and no matter what you decide I can assure you, you will always look back at your car and say why did I sell it. You have put so much of yourself into that car that it is tough for any newer car to compare. Although I am sure you will do what feels right.
Afshin,
To start i hope you don't sell the 928 until we have a chance to meet up at a concours. I have been hoping we would meet at one for a number of events but we always seem to miss each other. I am sure we would have fun competing.
With that said my take on the AM. Both the DB9 and vantage are drop dead gorgeous cars. Stunning in every sense. The DB9 I found to be claustrophobic in. Even the convertible. I am not small and the doors sit to high on my sides making me feel like I am sitting in a hole. Just me maybe but I have heard others say the same. The vantage is a little more comfortable but not much although feel wise it just feels better to me. More connected to the road and more responsive. I would call the DB9 a GT vs the vantage which is more of a sport GT. I would place the GTS between the the DB9 and Vantage although I feel more connected to the road in the GTS.
The Boxster is a Boxster, S or not. The base boxster's I dislike just like the base Cayman but even more so. Numb to drive but I am used to far more thrilling Porsche's. Many love them just not for me. The Boxster spyder is an entirely different animal. i would seriously consider owning. Powerful and fun almost like a soft top Cayman S. I like the lines far better also. You need to drive this car extensively to get a real feel for it.
The others suggested the F355's nice cars but IMO there are so many other cars for the same money out there that will thrill as much and not be so costly to maintain. Never liked the steering wheel angle in those cars but again that is me.
I agree with what other say including tv about the 911's. I love my GTS but it is not the exciting ride either my C2 or turbo is. The GTS is my first choice for a long distance drive open highways or twisty roads where comfort and performance are required. The 911's are my first choice for all out spirited driving. Not that the GTS can't perform because it can but you have to push it to do so. In comparison it is lethargic until you force the peddle to the floor. The 911's just go and go with minimal effort. Although I find the 996's on up to be less than connected to the road. They are nice but nothing like the 964T or 993TT's for road feel and excitement.
The 996TT motor as others were saying is nothing more than a modified version of what is in my 964 turbo. Same case slightly different internals with water jacketed heads and electronics. I agree with others if you can get passed the headlights they are an amazing car for the money. Where else can you get that kind of performance in a reliable car for between $35 and $60k today. For the record the reason why they are so cheap is simple. Mass production and cheap lease deals. They made far more 996TT's than they did all previous turbos combined possibly more than double total quantity. They all came off lease at the same time and at one point there were more 996TT's on Ebay for sale than there were 94 turbos or GTS made. This killed their value along with similar occurrence with the 997TT. The 997TT is superior car and is coming down in price quickly due to too many produced. I have seen them in the price range of a boxster spyder which is something else to consider.
To group an SLS into this is like throwing in a CGT. Way different animal and far to costly, electronics also have a lot to do with how these cars perform.
IMO if you want more of a thrill ride car the one to look for is either the 996 GT2 later model or the 996GT3 RS. Both of these are completely different but both are some of the better modern Porsche's made with some of the raw old school feel of cars like my turbo but much of the modern refinements you expect from newer cars.
Good Luck with your decision. It is a tough one and no matter what you decide I can assure you, you will always look back at your car and say why did I sell it. You have put so much of yourself into that car that it is tough for any newer car to compare. Although I am sure you will do what feels right.
Anthony I do appreciate all of the input. I will probably continue to attend concours since I enjoy it but I'm not sure I will actually participate. Too easy to win with a newer car IMHO. If I don't sell then maybe we'll have an opportunity to compete. I was actually considering coming down in July for the next concours in Long Island, this will really depend on if I have the car or not or if someone is seriously interested or not.
There are technically three factors for this purchase, they include Fun to Drive, Reliable and I have to like the way they look. I realize the last one is purely opinion. I did drive a DE prepped 964 and I liked it but I didn't walk away thinking "I want one". The handling is excellent but it just doesn't feel modern. It is very mechanical and I really want something that isolates that feeling. I realize that some of the steering feel will be lost but overall if the car does what I want I really don't mind.
Personally I do not care for the appearance of the 996. The curves are lost, the interior is not elegant or sporty and overall my impression is that Porsche focused strictly on performance. The 997 is a huge improvement, not as nice as the 993 on the outside but definitely attractive and compelling visually. I've thought about a used 997 Cab and I may need to test drive it but overall the Spyder seems more like the type of car I'm after. There is talk about a Clubsport version of the Cayman S which sounds interesting but I really think a convertible would be cool and suit this region of the country better.
Supply/Demand and appearance IMHO, not much else as Anthony has pointed out.
06-30-2010, 02:04 PM
#104
Rennlist Member
Production numbers, exclusivity, nostalgia.....pick something.
Friend of mine recently paid about 50% more for a 993TT than an equal condition / mileage 996TT would go for. His first Porsche (he has a warehouse of restored muscle cars). I was a bit surprised when he showed up in it. I asked why / how he came to this car he said: "I was told this was the 911 to buy".
He could care less about the headlights.
That's the botton line, the 993TT is considered the best and the end of a era. No matter how much faster, more reliable, quality etc.... the 996 might be, it's still not a 993TT. You also have the 997TT on the other side pushing the value down.
I'm willing to bet the 993TT will sustain their value over the 997TT in the long run.
Similar reasons why the 928GTS sells for so much more than an S4/GT. We all know you can buy an S4/GT, add some fenders, mirrors, boost and you have a car that has the looks and will bury the performance of a stock GTS for similar or less money.
It's still not going to be worth anywhere near a comparable conditon 93-95.
Friend of mine recently paid about 50% more for a 993TT than an equal condition / mileage 996TT would go for. His first Porsche (he has a warehouse of restored muscle cars). I was a bit surprised when he showed up in it. I asked why / how he came to this car he said: "I was told this was the 911 to buy".
He could care less about the headlights.
That's the botton line, the 993TT is considered the best and the end of a era. No matter how much faster, more reliable, quality etc.... the 996 might be, it's still not a 993TT. You also have the 997TT on the other side pushing the value down.
I'm willing to bet the 993TT will sustain their value over the 997TT in the long run.
Similar reasons why the 928GTS sells for so much more than an S4/GT. We all know you can buy an S4/GT, add some fenders, mirrors, boost and you have a car that has the looks and will bury the performance of a stock GTS for similar or less money.
It's still not going to be worth anywhere near a comparable conditon 93-95.
Although put a 993TT against a 996TT and a 94 Turbo and you will find that all three are very similar in performance but vary considerably in driving experience. The newer the car the easier to launch but acceleration wise almost identical. My 94 Turbo will pull on a 993TT or 996TT from 60-140 that is easy enough to prove. As far as the Porsche to own that is subjective. I really like the 993TT but prefer my 94 turbo. It is more fun and far more raw a car than the 993TT. They can be a bit too reserved and I am not a fan of the weight or the handling of the AWD cars. However of all the people i know that have owned both 996TT's and 993TT' s they all prefer the 993 in the end. The 996TT is a better DD but not weekend worrier.
Currently I know of several 993TT's sell between $55k and $70k on up for low mileage examples. same goes for the 94's. We are now starting to see these numbers for the GTS's. Exclusivity is part of the reason. The limited number of clean cars is another. As the lower mileage cars get purchased and used we are finding that the bar is raised and those cars that remain sub 20k mile cars are going up in value for all 3 of these models.
06-30-2010, 02:19 PM
#105
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