UncleMaz

I had a few questions regarding my specific motor (87 S4) as I have begun to talk to the folks at DIYautotune about what configuration would be best: How many teeth are on the crank trigger? Is it 60 minus 2? Also, MAF or MAP: Has anyone done any specific stock and performance programming here and are they available some how?

After some discussion and thought on the subject, not to mention some great info and comments here (you smart people know who you are), I am not going with stock brains and have decided to go aftermarket engine management (MS) in my 87 motor in a MY 1980 chassis swap. Also, Sean (Zoltan944) has been kind enough to offer his help with wiring and tuning.

I am amazed how straight forward the MSII harness looks to wire into the sensors. Tuning is an entirely different matter for me. More on that in the swap thread when I actually can share enough information that will be useful here. TIA

BC

60-2 for the S4.


Thats a colin question. Your life would be made simple if you could pay him to come down and help you program it all when you get it wired up. I would use MAP, and since MS uses that, its pretty much a no-brainer. That also means you will now be tuning from CLT and AIT. (Coolant and Air intake temp). MAF compensates for AIT, and that is why now with no MAF you will need separate AIT. Jesus, its like we are speaking a different language.
Cool.

UncleMaz

Thanks for the response Brendan. That is an excellent idea regarding Colin. Donde esta Colin?

Also, thanks for the 60-2.

I am getting so damn excited.

Tom. M

Using map on mine. Simple GM style AIT mounted right in the airbox. Coolant temp taken right off the temp II I believe. Also able to control the existing idle stabilizer directly with the MS. BTW..with Map you can get rid of the Maf and just plumb in a big ole open pipe .

Your TPS will require replacement too...as the MS needs a potentiometric style..not a three position one that comes stock.

Long term the MAP will also allow you to add different intake manifolds easily.. (read ITB's )...
P.S. Get Colin to make you the 36-1 trigger wheel.. mounts on the front easily That way you can use any double disk flywheel in the back

Tom. M

Its hard to do..but next time I'm at the shop, I'll take some pics of the various wiring end points and such... also...of note for you.. you'll have to set up the MS to control the flappy. Fairly straight forward. I'll dig up the emails I exchanged with Colin on that too...

Tom. M

Oh yea.. when you are done wiring it up...I can send you my MS files so it will give you a good starting point (read...car should start and run)..and then you can tweak from there....

UncleMaz

I love it. Where can I get the right TPS?

Thank you.

Thank you again.

BC

Don't forget mike Simard makes a mad-cool flywheel with 60-2 you can use the 7.25 tilton clutch packs with, and a hydraulic throw out bearing adapter. No more slave issues.

Lizard928

I would advise against the 7.25" clutch on a street car.

Y estoy aqui. And should it not be Donde eres?

Go with MAP, no point in staying with MAF when the system is fully programmable.

The trigger wheel is 60-2 on the back.

However you have a few options when it comes to the ign system.
EDIS-8 (what Tom has), very easy to setup, but requires a 36-1 ring on the front of the crank to be able to run it. The VR sensor used is cheap and realiable. Also this system is not very finiky.
I did this on an 82, and we had the altenator belt fail, it kicked off and kocked the VR sensor for the MS away from the trigger wheel by over 1" (perpendicular), and the car still got enough of a signal to run!!!!
The downside to this system is that you need to mount 2 large coil packs, and you will have fairly long IGN leads.
All other systems can use the 60-2 pickup etc. This will require a single disc flywheel, or a modified 2 disc system. Now if you are going this way. Buy a new reference sensor from Roger. As well, when making the harness add a 1k ohm resistor (I used 1/8W 5% carbon) into the + line for the sensor. If you do not the sensor will produce too many V, and the brain will shut off the signal to prevent damage.
With this trigger, you can firs 2 stock coils, probably without the addition of BIP373 (VB921 replacements) drivers. However you will remain the stock ign system.
The other options are COP, or CNP setups.
If you want COP you can use Cayenne coils, but hold off on this for now, I will have more information in the future. The benifit to this is that they have Porsche part #s on them, and therefor will look more stock. You can also use Gm CNP units and get custom short ign leads to be able to drive them. This is how I will probably be doing future installs. But they obviously dont look as factory.

If you also make up your mind as to what you are looking to do with the IGN system I could even make a plug in harness.

Also regarding the air and clt sensors. I would actually recommend using GM sensors. These are easily addes. But they are cheap, work well, and are easy to calibrate to know that they are accurate. I find the stock clt sensor doesnt work as well with MS due to the resistances/temp values for building its table.

Tom. M

I forgot about the GM coolant temp sensor. You'll have to drill a mounting point into the coolant bridge if you go with the GM style (fairly easy). I pushed Colin to use the stock sensor and it works fine for me.

wildwestsydney

I can not speak of your specific motor but I have MS fuel only using map on my 84 euro. I was very pleased with the results. I also went with ford 24# injectors. Definately go with the GM sensors they work perfect with ms with out of the box and there dirt cheap. I have all the hardware to go Edis but have not had the time to do the install. Yes a true potentiometer style TPS will need to be adapted, again GM stuff is dirt cheap. I built a new engine wiring harness so now I have no worries of old broken wires. My car is still definately a work in progress but I am definately happy with the decision to go MS.

Sam

Lizard928

The TPS is not actually mandatory, but it does help with the tuning.

UncleMaz

That would be nice upon clutch change.

Colin thank you for all of the information- Would the 87+ auto flywheel need to be welded to a smaller 85/86 setup as Jim Bailey suggests? I think I would like to retain my stock dual disc setup as I have enough friction material on there to last a bit until I can save up for a new clutch kit? Also, would Mike Simard's flywheel replace the need to do any flywheel modifications and could I run it with the stock clutch system? If not, are the parts to do the custom flywheel setup readily available? Also, would the 36-1 ring undo the necessity for flywheel changes on the dual disc system? I see diyautotune sells them for reasonable amounts.

Thanks Tom. Added to the list.

Sam, thanks for the info. What flywheel clutch system does an 84 have and did you have to make any changes to it?

If they are cheap, might as well.

When I have all of the stuff together, I will definitely approach Colin about his services regarding ignition. I would like to keep as much as I have and stock, and improve as monies can be saved for improvements later on.

My Spanglish sucks.

UncleMaz

The tech at diyautotune suggested the following hookup for Ign: Usually you would just jumper the wires on the EZK so you feed the EZK's crank signal to the MS and send the ignition signals from the MS straight to the coils.

Thoughts? Thank you.

BC

While three or even four plate system available, modulation should be fine and its going to be way more user friendly than the dual disks. And handle higher power levels.

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