Are crazy high restore cost warnings exaggerations?
05-01-2010, 10:55 AM
#1
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Are crazy high restore cost warnings exaggerations?
FROM RL FORUM-----"Nicole is right - as always!!! Look at this one in NZ with FX it is about USD$700. IMHO It would probably cost about 40k to get it back to nice condition. Give or take 30k of course depending on what you want."-----MY REPLY>What is the cost breakdown on a 40k restore your talking about?? I plan on doing all the work on my basket case myself using help from the internet and a brother that can paint. I plan on rebuilding/cleaning parts and buying used. I would think 40k would be to pay someone else to do everything while buying all new parts from Porsche to get it back in perfect concours condition. Not many go that route. I may be way off base here due to my lack of experience, but 40k to get it in nice shape sounds crazy high and unrealistic for the average restore usually done on these forums IMHO. ------HEY MPDANO. How much have you spent? 40K?http://www.porsche928forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4
05-01-2010, 11:05 AM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Easy enough to do your own cost estimates. $40k can replace the interior, rebuild the mechanicals and get a good paint job.
What needs to be done and what are you willing to do yourself? Make a list and price everything.
Easy enough to pour money in over the long term. I've completely restored my interior, rebuilt the engine twice, tranny once, new clutch, steering racks, etc, etc and fixed it after a crash. Painted it myself but still $$$$!
What needs to be done and what are you willing to do yourself? Make a list and price everything.
Easy enough to pour money in over the long term. I've completely restored my interior, rebuilt the engine twice, tranny once, new clutch, steering racks, etc, etc and fixed it after a crash. Painted it myself but still $$$$!
05-01-2010, 11:17 AM
#3
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Just make sure that you really like and enjoy what ever you get.
You will pour money into any older car to keep it going, let alone modify it to what you want it to become. A lot more money than it's worth and you will ever get back after a sale.
A bit like getting married really. Choose wisely.
You will pour money into any older car to keep it going, let alone modify it to what you want it to become. A lot more money than it's worth and you will ever get back after a sale.
A bit like getting married really. Choose wisely.
05-01-2010, 11:23 AM
#4
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The cost depends upon the answers to a couple of questions.
1) How nice a 928 do you want? A show car, garage queen that is never driven in the rain? A rough, reasonable dependable daily driver? Where do you want your car to be between those extremes?
2) How much of your own work will you/can you do? Do you have a place to work? Are you willing to learn?
1) How nice a 928 do you want? A show car, garage queen that is never driven in the rain? A rough, reasonable dependable daily driver? Where do you want your car to be between those extremes?
2) How much of your own work will you/can you do? Do you have a place to work? Are you willing to learn?
05-01-2010, 12:07 PM
#6
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Simple answer to the question.... No.
Vague answer to the question.... It depends.
Detailed answer to the question.... You get what you pay for.
Realistic answer to the question.... More than you bargained for -but worth it.
Vague answer to the question.... It depends.
Detailed answer to the question.... You get what you pay for.
Realistic answer to the question.... More than you bargained for -but worth it.
05-01-2010, 12:43 PM
#7
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Paint job can be anywhere from 2K to over 10K It all depends on what you want done. The higher the price the more prep goes into the paint job... removing windows, rubber seals, taking the bumpers off along with the tailgate and doors etc. one can go crazy. A good masking job will run about 4K to 6K but I would still remove the front window and rear tailgate window and the bumpers. (these are South Florida prices where things get to be a bit more expensive)
Personally I would try to find one that the paint job is in good shape and just needs a professional wet sanding to bring the luster back.
But thats just me, I like original paint.
As for the interior it all depends if you go leather or vinyl, or vinyl with pasha etc. My cousin did his interior all new leather plus new carpet etc and it cost him around 5K. Most likely the dash will have to be done, that runs around $600, but YOU have to take out the dash and send it. That takes lots of time (I have never done it but so I here)
Mechanical wise I can't say much there I am sure others will jump in for me. But for sure timing belt and water pump, what does that run anyway? All rubber parts replaced, and on and on.
God knows what else is in store for you under the car.
What I can say is that mechanically you can pretty much calculate cost if you do it yourself, and if you have someone else do. A good mechanic will quote you the hours needed plus the parts cost.
Interior and paint is where you have the most flexibility.
Personally I would try to find one that the paint job is in good shape and just needs a professional wet sanding to bring the luster back.
But thats just me, I like original paint.
As for the interior it all depends if you go leather or vinyl, or vinyl with pasha etc. My cousin did his interior all new leather plus new carpet etc and it cost him around 5K. Most likely the dash will have to be done, that runs around $600, but YOU have to take out the dash and send it. That takes lots of time (I have never done it but so I here)
Mechanical wise I can't say much there I am sure others will jump in for me. But for sure timing belt and water pump, what does that run anyway? All rubber parts replaced, and on and on.
God knows what else is in store for you under the car.
What I can say is that mechanically you can pretty much calculate cost if you do it yourself, and if you have someone else do. A good mechanic will quote you the hours needed plus the parts cost.
Interior and paint is where you have the most flexibility.
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05-01-2010, 12:47 PM
#8
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On a side note... are there any work shops for the 928? I am mechanically inclined but most of my work has been done on simple cars from the 50's and 60's.
Would be nice to have a three day course in specific areas on the 928. You know get away from the house for the weekend and learn something while your out!
Would be nice to have a three day course in specific areas on the 928. You know get away from the house for the weekend and learn something while your out!
05-01-2010, 12:50 PM
#9
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"Restoring" a 928 has never made any sense to me when if you shop around for a few months you will find a nice one that needs no restoration for less than half the cost of a restoration. As a general rule, restored cars almost never are worth the amount spent on restoration. My dad once told me that you should buy a car that is cosmetically as nice as you can find. It took me years and a bunch of cars before I understood exactly why he said that. So, buy either a nice original or a car restored by somebody else.
05-01-2010, 01:21 PM
#10
Race Car
"Restoring" a 928 has never made any sense to me when if you shop around for a few months you will find a nice one that needs no restoration for less than half the cost of a restoration. As a general rule, restored cars almost never are worth the amount spent on restoration. My dad once told me that you should buy a car that is cosmetically as nice as you can find. It took me years and a bunch of cars before I understood exactly why he said that. So, buy either a nice original or a car restored by somebody else.
05-01-2010, 01:29 PM
#11
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
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"Restoring" a 928 has never made any sense to me when if you shop around for a few months you will find a nice one that needs no restoration for less than half the cost of a restoration. As a general rule, restored cars almost never are worth the amount spent on restoration. My dad once told me that you should buy a car that is cosmetically as nice as you can find. It took me years and a bunch of cars before I understood exactly why he said that. So, buy either a nice original or a car restored by somebody else.
05-01-2010, 01:35 PM
#12
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IMO,
A) It depends on the amount of shotgunning that is done. i.e. you see a lot of WYIT suggestions and suggestions of things that you should just replace, because they're probably original, on this site; my car came to me with two binders of service history, from it I've seen a lot of the typical "just replace it" stuff that actually was replaced in the last couple of years. If you get a car that has been maintained by previous owners, there may be quite a bit of that restoration money you can save by not blindly replacing things that aren't worn/broken.
B) Unfortunately, you don't always get what you pay for in a restoration. Good paint shops will rarely be cheap, but expensive paint shops aren't always good. I had my '85 repainted by a local shop some years ago (right next door to my Porsche mechanic); the paint itself they did OK, but they obviously struggled with a lot of the trim, seals, etc. The total result, because of that, was less than I paid for. A few years later, I had to get some post-accident paint and body work done on my '93 by a different shop in Denver (actually recommended by State Farm). Those guys were absolute pros. Similar cost to the first shop, but astoundingly better work - total attention to detail, on time, and perfect. When the funds allow, that second shop is definitely where the '88 and my money are going. Long story short, I think you really need a paint shop that's familiar with 928's and has parts sources for them.
C) Carpet sets aren't terribly expensive. If you can install one yourself, you can do a large part of interior restoration right there. The newly available ABS repro door panels are also a good part of interior restoration. For the seats, door panels, etc, Paul Champagne is a godsend. His prices are on his web site, are, IMO a serious bargain, and make it relatively easy to have an interior that's exactly what you want, and better than original (though not true restoration, I suppose, if you're a purist...).
Overall, if you're paying other people to do all the work, and you want/need new seat covers and foam, new door panels, new carpet, new dash and center console, paint, seals, mechanical restoration, under hood foam, shocks, bushings, etc, then $40K is probably about right. If you buy a car that has been maintained, and don't replace the stuff that doesn't need to be replaced, and can do a lot of the work yourself, you can probably have a very nice car for $15K - $20K.
A) It depends on the amount of shotgunning that is done. i.e. you see a lot of WYIT suggestions and suggestions of things that you should just replace, because they're probably original, on this site; my car came to me with two binders of service history, from it I've seen a lot of the typical "just replace it" stuff that actually was replaced in the last couple of years. If you get a car that has been maintained by previous owners, there may be quite a bit of that restoration money you can save by not blindly replacing things that aren't worn/broken.
B) Unfortunately, you don't always get what you pay for in a restoration. Good paint shops will rarely be cheap, but expensive paint shops aren't always good. I had my '85 repainted by a local shop some years ago (right next door to my Porsche mechanic); the paint itself they did OK, but they obviously struggled with a lot of the trim, seals, etc. The total result, because of that, was less than I paid for. A few years later, I had to get some post-accident paint and body work done on my '93 by a different shop in Denver (actually recommended by State Farm). Those guys were absolute pros. Similar cost to the first shop, but astoundingly better work - total attention to detail, on time, and perfect. When the funds allow, that second shop is definitely where the '88 and my money are going. Long story short, I think you really need a paint shop that's familiar with 928's and has parts sources for them.
C) Carpet sets aren't terribly expensive. If you can install one yourself, you can do a large part of interior restoration right there. The newly available ABS repro door panels are also a good part of interior restoration. For the seats, door panels, etc, Paul Champagne is a godsend. His prices are on his web site, are, IMO a serious bargain, and make it relatively easy to have an interior that's exactly what you want, and better than original (though not true restoration, I suppose, if you're a purist...).
Overall, if you're paying other people to do all the work, and you want/need new seat covers and foam, new door panels, new carpet, new dash and center console, paint, seals, mechanical restoration, under hood foam, shocks, bushings, etc, then $40K is probably about right. If you buy a car that has been maintained, and don't replace the stuff that doesn't need to be replaced, and can do a lot of the work yourself, you can probably have a very nice car for $15K - $20K.
05-01-2010, 01:52 PM
#13
Race Car
IMO,
B) Unfortunately, you don't always get what you pay for in a restoration. Good paint shops will rarely be cheap, but expensive paint shops aren't always good.
C) Carpet sets aren't terribly expensive. If you can install one yourself, you can do a large part of interior restoration right there. The newly available ABS repro door panels are also a good part of interior restoration. For the seats, door panels, etc, Paul Champagne is a godsend. His prices are on his web site, are, IMO a serious bargain, and make it relatively easy to have an interior that's exactly what you want, and better than original (though not true restoration, I suppose, if you're a purist...).
B) Unfortunately, you don't always get what you pay for in a restoration. Good paint shops will rarely be cheap, but expensive paint shops aren't always good.
C) Carpet sets aren't terribly expensive. If you can install one yourself, you can do a large part of interior restoration right there. The newly available ABS repro door panels are also a good part of interior restoration. For the seats, door panels, etc, Paul Champagne is a godsend. His prices are on his web site, are, IMO a serious bargain, and make it relatively easy to have an interior that's exactly what you want, and better than original (though not true restoration, I suppose, if you're a purist...).
Between Paul Champagne and Classic 9 Leather (and carpets) you can redo an interior of an 89 or earlier for not a crazy amount. My buddy at work spent well over 10K for a custom interior and could have done it for less. When I showed him Paul Champagne's site I could see him almost get sick on how much he overspent...
Re: Paint: My buddy at the body shop had a client come in with a 99 911 a few years back. The guy was 2nd owner. He had been in a fender bender. Billy (body shop owner) says to him, nice car and a nice repaint. The owner got all defensive and said how the 1st owner said it was accident free and all original paint. Billy's a nice guy who is known to redo part of his own jobs 2 or 3 times if he is not satisfied with the results (may be why he has had his #2 guy quit more than a few times). He respectfully showed the guy the overspray on the front axel and under panels. It wasn't a bad job, just not the standard he holds himself up to.
He is a drive in shop for State Farm and a number of others (lost Geico-but they have trimmed down the number of drive in shops over the past few years). He also has a wall full of accolades from the insurance companies and paint companies as well as customers including the local police chief. I've seen him bring back cars with full airbag deployments back from the dead. Other than the lack of stickers on the panels, you couldn't tell they'd ever been in an accident.
Unfortunately it took me 2 body shops to realize how good Billy is. The fact he's owned a 928 and a number of Porsche's over the years doesn't hurt either :-)
05-01-2010, 02:02 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Here is a paint job example from last summer on my '92 Euro GTS...
The body shop that is associated (ie same owners) with the local Porsche dealer did the work. Here is what they did:
Refinished all four wheels
Repainted the following - pass side door, frt and rear fenders, rocker trim, front and rear bumper cover, drivers rear qtr...
They DID NOT paint - hood, roof, drivers frt fender or door, or the rocker panels...
They pulled the rear qtr glass and the passenger door trim. They replaced the rear fender liners (expensive!).
There was very little actual body work to do but there was a bit on the front bumper cover, pass door and front and rear fenders...
COST = $10k+!!! Not even a total repaint and it was $10k Oh, they did do a 4 wheel alignment. No interior work, no mechanical work! So, you can see how $40k could be burned through pretty quickly on a car that needs much...
The body shop that is associated (ie same owners) with the local Porsche dealer did the work. Here is what they did:
Refinished all four wheels
Repainted the following - pass side door, frt and rear fenders, rocker trim, front and rear bumper cover, drivers rear qtr...
They DID NOT paint - hood, roof, drivers frt fender or door, or the rocker panels...
They pulled the rear qtr glass and the passenger door trim. They replaced the rear fender liners (expensive!).
There was very little actual body work to do but there was a bit on the front bumper cover, pass door and front and rear fenders...
COST = $10k+!!! Not even a total repaint and it was $10k Oh, they did do a 4 wheel alignment. No interior work, no mechanical work! So, you can see how $40k could be burned through pretty quickly on a car that needs much...
05-01-2010, 02:07 PM
#15
Under the Lift
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