blown 87

Thanks Bob, looking forward to it.

Rob Edwards

I was hesitant to make this comment yesterday, but now that Greg's chimed in: Having bought um, a few parts in the last year from Greg, I can honestly say that I don't know how he's netting any money at all on parts, after factoring in the time to order and the carrying costs of all the stuff he inventories (despite my OCD attempts to have every nut and bolt in hand during assembly, there were plenty of instances where we'd need a seal, or a hose, or whatever. He'd just walk into his stockroom, and boom, the right part, instantly. Like a candy store....)

We all know what the parts cost from the vendors, and every time I'd review the invoice from Greg, the part would be within 10% or so of what I'd pay Mark/Roger/DR for it, and there was no waiting for it or any shipping charge.

Greg sure ain't getting rich off of parts, that's for sure.

dr bob

Greg(s), I'm not really sure how independent auto repair places can actually make money these days, at least around here. By the time you factor in overhead costs like rent and electricity, insurance and the lay-awake plan for financing tools, a little advertising, parts inventory just for normal consumables, gubbamint fees and taxes, it seems like a service bay -costs- over $100/hr here before I ever put a tech/mechanic in it. With that in mind, it's not at all suprising that there are mark-ups on parts, short-cuts on flat-rate jobs, and work done in haste at some places.

In the end, there are cheap places to have the car worked on, and there are good places to have it worked on. Paying a lot doesn't guarantee that you'll get good results, but going cheap almost always guarantees that you won't.

nsantolick

While the "would you bring a steak to a restaurant" joke makes sense, I can't help but to wonder what one would think of a restaurant that doesn't have prices on the menu, but rather just says "it's very competitive and reasonable." I wonder how long anyone would be comfortable waiting if the food will be served "when they get done making it, at their own pace..."

Seriously, although I see how it seems to be embraced, I just can't understand how that's acceptable to anyone. Sure, things can go wrong, and often do, but isn't that just the sort of thing that true experience should be able to take into consideration when asked for an estimate?

Why isn't a truly competent mechanic able to say that "it should be about $X,XXX,XXX.XX but if this and that happens, it may be $X,XXX,XXX.XX more and take another XXX days or so"??? That sort of thing...

I've felt that the "shop orders parts" thing had a whole lot more to do with how they make a profit, and, I can't fault anyone for choosing whatever they want with their business. A few dollars less an hour and a few percent more of a markup on parts is the same in the end, but it might be more competitive for them to structure things a particular way. Understandable.

I've got to ask though; Is there really that much of a difference in most parts one may need to service these relatively rare cars? Can anyone list an example though of a part whose quality really varies sooooo much from different sources?

I felt that there just weren't that many choices with most parts on these cars in the first place. And yes, I know that new factory parts are generally the best, but, short of them, aren't most vendors selling nothing but good parts in the first place?




By the way, I really do appreciate those who chimed in and tried to improve the tone of the post. I'm not here to make enemies, but I'm also not apt to bite my tongue nor worry much about what anyone thinks of me either. I don't particulary care if some think that I give Porsche owners a bad name. Frankly, I've always felt that a lot of them were doofuses in the first place, but I still love the cars. Whether or not I'm invited to play in their "Stuttgart Reindeer Games" just doesn't matter to me. lol

Anyone who's read my posts knows that I've had some horrible experiences in the past and although I'm happy 100% handling things myself now, what can I say? Over my life I've had a lot of really horrible mechanics. I can't recall any of them not telling me how great they are, or how long they've been doing it. It means nothing more to me than I get very suspicious hearing the same stuff I've heard so many times before and wonder. It shouldn't surprise anyone if I say the inverse is true as well. The humble ones are almost always completely awesome. They don't need to brag. Their reputation often precedes them. Saying, for example, that one knows "just what they read on internet" actually gives me a lot of confidence in them. "I've been doing it for 10,000 years" just doesn't...

References, especially from people on Rennlist, says everything. blown87 seems to have good ones, and that's great. I wish him all the best.

The existence of wigs doesn't, after all, preclude the existence of hair, you know...

Landseer

Next time you have the urge to hire a mechanic, stream it from a headcam.

That'll tell fellow rennlisters where not to go.

nsantolick

lol - It's a distinct possibility that I'm just cursed. It's occurred to me. Seriously...

I thought they were joking when they said not to build my garage over that old Indian burial ground. Should have listened to them, I fear...

Landseer

Nothing like an unhappy Lenne Lenapi ghost to mess with your head.

nsantolick

And my ignition system...

GregBBRD

Cam belt, water pump come to mind...and that is just the very front of the engine.

You will learn, as you go.

928 at last

OK, my postion here is the same one I have in my business. (before I went corporate).
A professional is a professional. And, they conduct themselves as such.
That's why I place a huge value on references. Also, If you don't ask the right questions, don't expect the right answers.
In this case, if you ask a mechanic if he has Porsche experience, the answer may very well be yes, and there's no issue there, but....if it's experience on 911's, it's not going to be much use with our cars.... Guess what?...you lose.
As for the mark-up on the parts, I'm actually OK with that. Shops don't run without expenses and overhead, and true professionals don't work cheap. Sorry, fact of life. And, if I'm going to try to hold someone's feet to the fire after a part screws up, (Not the mechanic), I'm prepared to pay for the priviledge.
The very few times I've ever asked a pro to use the parts I've collected for a job, (and there haven't been many), I make it quite clear that if there's an issue with a part failure, it's not his problem. It's mine. On the other hand, if I go in and check torque on something and the bolt's falling out, then there may be a conversation to be had.
Bottom line,
Your job is to try to figure out who is the pro. Lots of pretenders, few of the "real McCoy".
And, once you find one of the latter, enjoy. (And suck it up. Other people have to feed their families too).

syoo8

nsantolick: I don't know you, but from reading your posts you seem to be an intelligent person. It also seems like you are itching for a fight here.

I don't want to pick a fight with you, so please take me at face value.

Here's a question: Do you think that your many prior bad experiences could be a self-fulfilling prophecy? It seems like with so many bad repair jobs with different garages, that it is possible you might be fomenting the worst in others? Because you seem to have in this forum.

I am a musician, and based on my on experiences, when I micromanage even the most reputable of repairmen, I won't get his best work. What I've learned is to grant them my trust, tell them to "take care of my baby." (And I'm not talking about a $25,000 car, I am talking about a $250,000 violin.)

The reason that I am writing this post, again, is not to antagonize you by any means!

But I wince when I read these types of threads, because Rennlist depends on the goodwill and generosity of knowledgeable people. It is fair to say that everyone would be unhappy if some of the most knowledgeable people on the board (read:mechanics) were turned off by the rest of us (read: amateurs.) The strength of a forum such as this is the number of experts who are willing to answer questions that newbies like me cannot answer for themselves.

nsantolick

You know, honestly, I've wondered if it's me. I really have. My best opinion is no, I don't think it was. With most of these shops that I've had bad experiences with, I've been nice. I didn't nag. Yeah, I asked questions prior to committing to let them handle things but ultimately, I did trust them all and tried to be patient. Frankly, and maybe I'm a bit paranoid but I didn't want to screw myself with pissing off a shop that can pad the bill a bit more to spite me if I was unreasonable, or worse...

I don't think I'm wrong to expect an estimate. I don't think I'm wrong to be upset if they keep the car, with little to no progress for months after their reasonable expectation of time required has passed. I think that calling, or stopping by once every week or two isn't unreasonable when the time they claim they needed is over, and they didn't even start the job, or worse yet, just took it apart and parked it.

Do I foment the worst in others here. Maybe. And if I do, I really am sorry. I just went back and re-read most of this thread, again. Yeah, maybe I got a bit sarcastic. I feel I was provoked into it.

I'll tell you this though, right or wrong; I'm sick to death of people and their egos in general, and if I jumped the gun here, I'm sorry for that. I have had enough of it though. Doing something for a long time doesn't mean you've not been doing it poorly for a long time, period. I've heard that nonsense waaaaaaaaaay too much and have a really low tolerance for it now.

If I need to worry that people have to fear antagonizing me here, or I might ruin Rennlist for others by making those most knowledgeable flee by questioning what I see as cognitive dissonance, then really, I don't want to be here, and I'd just assume park it permanently, or list the dam car on eBay or whatever and be done with it all. Right now, that's a distinct possibility...

S4ordie

Duuuuuuuuude! I have been reading this thread with a strange amusement. I am glad you are building your own expertise. Your comments against some of the true gems of this community, the professional 928 experts that participate here and offer their sage wisdom, experience and most excellent advice for FREE, is just mind numbing to me.

Why on earth would you **** in the punchbowl of great free advice? Guess what happens the next time you post some strange quirky issue with your car that only the pros may understand the best way to fix? If I were one of these great resources I'd just keep my advice to myself and leave you to figure it out on your own or perhaps with some mediocre or poor advice from a less experienced shade tree mechanic.

Sorry you have had such poor experiences with your car. What you rant most about is what comes with owning a supercar. The best and worst thing about 928's is they are inxepensive to purchase. As a good exercise, go to a Ferrari, Maserati, Bugatti, Aston Martin, forum and post the exact same comments but replace the "928" with the marque of that forum and watch and read the results.

The professionals that participate in this forum do so because they are committed to their profession and these strange cars we love. If any of them were scammers, thieves or incompetent they would have been sussed out early and would have been villified and ran off the forum. That they are still here means they and their expertise has been vetted.

Good luck with your car.

Hilton

Yeah, because the problem in this thread is everyone else's egos.



It hasn't occurred to you that this whole thread can be construed as a rant with the sole purpose of attempting to antagonise others by making sweeping generalisations about the professions of people who have particular skills and experience?

I can't see any other reasons for it; its not like it started out as a means to help others with their 928 issues, or get recommendations for shops.

Anyway, don't let me sway your opinion.. this looks like it has the makings of some of the best drama we've had in weeks!

Leon Speed

Late to the party?