Grey Guy

Some guys like working on their planes, boats and cars, others prefer a qualified pro taking care of all or some of the maintenance. Personal choice. Whatever works for you.

dcrasta

You can ask if they use the factory service manuals, and if they say yes ask to see them.

Especially if you are talking about your typical large job like a Timing Belt / WP or Shocks/Suspension. They need to know about the cross brace and how / when you can remove it. ETC. Jack points on these cars , all it takes is one hasty tire rack guy or shop guy to bend something expensive. Ask questions, dont be shy. When they get agitated that's the red flag to me (stay polite and all but ask your questions..)

Leon Speed

Watch out for a white Prius

fraggle

Look for an oscilloscope and the workshop manuals!!

morganabowen

Been there, done that I heard that from the first couple of Porsche Shops that I patronized. Pissed me off to have them say that to me at the same time I'm giving them my hard earned money Once you find a good mechanic, stay with him/her

nsantolick

I've been expressly warned by some shops to "pay no attention to what you read online" as most people are wrong, and get off on saying things to get one worried. lol

I've heard, many times, how their years of experience mean that they know more. Tons of nonsense.

I had done enough homework prior to going to any dealer. Thought I was going to do it myself. It all started when I got suckered in by a shop with a lot of hot cars and a promise of $450 to do the timing belt job (I provided the parts) and they said it would be done in a day. In 2 months, I pulled it and took it to another shop that promised fast service. Pulled it from that one in another 2+ months. Then, the transmission exploded. While that was done, well enough, it only took a few days until the ignition system had developed problems.

As a final slap in my face, on my last drive, just feet from where I park it, the alternator cooling tube fell off and it, and the sensor inside got ran over by the front tire. Ugh...

That's when, after I sobered up, I made a list of everything not perfect, ordered some parts and bought $1000+ of buffing/waxing related tools and machines and felt, I'll go over the car, with excellence, and fix everything on the list, myself. That's where I'm at now. No rush. Must be perfect... :-D

I don't really mean to gripe now. I'm at peace with the past experiences, but really can't consider paying someone to do anything ever again. Sure, I WANTED to pay, reasonable rates, for a "professional" but I know I'm way better off doing it all myself, even if I need to buy more stuff.

I do have a lot of cars, and am starting to get "back into it" and all. The 928 was meant to be my daily driver. I live where I work. If I go out, more often than not, it's 2-3 hours away. A good GT makes sense, with my life the way it is...

Can't wait to drive it again. Hard... lol

blown 87

I agree, how could we possibly know more just because we do it every day.

DR

It is easy to find a good one...only go to a shop that has some 928s there.....

and if 50% of those there are fully re-assembled.....and 50% of those re-assembled 928s still run....

well...you might have a winner....OR, at worst.......

someone who at least knows how to take them apart!!

nsantolick

If you do it every day, great, you probably know more than someone who doesn't. In general. Sure. Great. Congradufruckinglations... Gee, can I get an autograph???

That isn't to say that they are always right, or always know more than anyone, including idiots like myself at times who MAY just have read something or studied something that they haven't.

If you're humble enough to accept that possibility, great. In my experience, most mechanics, especially the ones that won't shut up about how they've been working on cars since they were a larvae, and assume that they're mechanical deities, well, what can I say? It's caused me problems.

When I got my 928, I read stuff, here mostly. I was torn as all hell about the idea of a porkentensioner. I thought, why put on an "upgrade" on the timing belt system? Why would I trust something used in relatively small numbers when tens out thousands of cars have been working just fine on the old system. Eventually, I came to realize what many here had; that it's a great upgrade. That it does a better job tensioning than the old one. That Porsche themselves, around '93, started to use something just like it.

Anyway, the mechanic that I had fought me on that. He brought it up for months afterwards, how it wasn't necessary. He claimed that it was a big part of why it took months to finish my car, etc. I don't think I was wrong, even with my lack of experience relative to those car gods that have been doing it forever.

I guess my example illustrates how PRIDE can get in the way of reality.

Great. Some mechanics have done stuff for a long time. Doesn't mean a thing about whether or not they have been doing things the right way, or are current. If they think they are infallible because they've been around cars, they are dangerous.

Like I said, at first, I was going to do the work myself. I bought the parts. ****, I started the job, but panicked and gave up when some other "been doing it forever" place convinced me that they could do the job in a day, for $450.00... It was a god dam Bosch certified shop, loaded to the hilt with $100,000+ cars. Their mechanics had "been working on cars for decades" too. They assumed that that means something. In the end, they didn't have a clue what they were doing, despite that bull**** ego-problem assumption of superknowledge and infallibility.

You know, this kind of thing has haunted me my whole life. From roofers who never used architectural shingles and ice guard before, butchering a dam expensive roof and installing thousands of dollars of ice guard, uselessly, over tar paper, DESPITE someone who hasn't been F'ing roofing for 40 years having read the dam instructions on the box and asking them why they are disregarding them. (Their extensive experience made them beyond reading the instructions on the dozens of boxes of $80 material, and they just "figured out" how to apply it, INCORRECTLY...)

I've had car work done by experts who've been in the foreign car business for decades. One time I waited over a year for a new tranmission for my Saab 900 Turbo. It exploded within a mile, and although it turns out that they put a weaker, non-turbo transmission in, they yelled at me because "I floored it, going up a hill..." WHAT??? How about you put in the wrong dam transmission, and it couldn't handle the extra power? OOOOOOOOOH, my fault. I floored it. And they've been working on Saabs since the 50's... Yeah, right...

How about the Volvo mechanic that somehow, probably because his shop damaged it, sent me home with a car that had a sock wrapped around a leaky fuel line to "repair" it. They worked on cars for decades too. The car burst into flames in the driveway that night...

How about the mega-dealer that ordered the wrong parts for another Volvo, and PHYSICALLY REMOVED THE PARKING BRAKE SYSTEM, not telling me, then eventually, under threat of lawsuits insisted that I brought it in that way? Funny. Although it's a bit immature, I did in fact make the car spin around a couple times earlier that week by PULLING THE PARKING BRAKE. Another example of a mechanic with decades of experience who was a complete F-up and did something nearly unbelievably stupid...

I've had carpenters do some silly crack head stuff too, despite their years that make them think they're experts in everything.

I've had a $50,000+ job done restoring a building that ended up with leaky new windows, some of which have cracked and leaked because of mistakes, coupled with siding that blows off and didn't have proper flashing, causing rain water to flow UNDER it all, damaging the building.

I've had a snooty plumber who demanded pay for travel to me hook hot water up to the toilet, and when I discovered it, insisted that he did it intentionally and it's better because the pipes won't sweat in the summer??? ARRRRRRRRRGH!!! No, it's actually because he was a crack head too, despite his ego and profession of excellence because of his age.

How about the gas guy who ran my 250,000BTU forced air unit via 14" ducting into a small bathroom to prevent the pipes from freezing??? More expert advice from a guy who I should assume is right because he has a business card and is 50ish???

How about the retired electrician who had a lifetime of experience that burned my father? My father wanted to be able to use his phone under a pavillion 150 feet off his house. Instead of suggesting "get a cordless", he brought in a machine and dug a trench to run wire. He ran 14 gauge, indoor wiring in the pit, next to an indoor phone line?

The same doofus, without my knowledge, hooked up outlets to some spots outside. Including one, to a dog kennel with chain link fence. Tap it, and it sparks. No underground cable. No GFCI. What do I know? He had done it his whole life too. Didn't stop him from sucking great big giant donkey ***** at what he did, eh???


So, what's to be learned? People have egos? That, just because they're in a given trade that they NEED to feel IMPORTANT. That they're so insecure that they NEED to think they know everything, whether or not they actually do?

I wonder what Socrates meant when he said "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance. " How about when he said "I know that I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing." How about when he said "To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge???" Sorry but I've got to concur...

Years of experience may mean that you ARE awesome. It also may mean that you hate your life and know every trick in the book to do a job "good enough" to get it done fast.

Maybe you think you're so dam good that you're beyond torque wrenches, or checking belt tension with an actual tool. Maybe you assume that there's no difference between a '79 and '89 928 and act accordingly.

Again; I'm not letting ANYONE touch my car again if I can help it. I'm buying my own lift. I already have SOME better equipment than some of these pro's. I certainly won't be worrying about how many billable hours I can wrack up, or make up. Maybe just maybe, even though I don't pay my bills via car service, that I have some talent or aptitude too? Maybe the non-professional guy who owns the car in the first place is smarter? Or better read? Or has a lot of connections with people who do
. Or the will do do a job better than most? Who's to know?

That being said, isn't it kind of silly to assume one knows better, all the time, because they can state that they have been mechanics for years? Isn't it equally irrational to assume that just because someone doesn't work at the BMW dealer that they aren't pretty dam good, or better even?

I KNOW those assumptions are nonsense. If they weren't, all these people that did bad jobs, despite their resumes might not have so colossally screwed up these jobs in the first place.

To tell you the truth, despite loving cars, and having played and owned a lot of cool ones for 2/3rds of my life now, I never intended to do a lot of work to my 928, originally anyway.

I screwed up. No PPI. Impulse buy. I bought one that, I mistakenly felt already had its necessary maintenance.

At first, I thought "no way" and already expected nightmares if I let another "been doing it forever" guy touch it. I got lazy, and busy, and thought I could trust the "professional..."

Four months plus later of weekly "it'll be done Thursdays", I picked up a car with bad brakes, major vacuum issues and a clunky transmission. I was told that the car should shift that way, and that it's normal to have a soft brake pedal. Then the transmission exploded and I was told that it was due to pads delaminating. I wonder if that $5,000 headache may have been prevented on my 85,000 mile otherwise pristine car if the vacuum system worked and the transmission didn't clunk as a result? Who's to say? I surely can't. I do suspect though, despite my lack of professional experience that MAYBE just MAYBE I was right to be concerned about it, DESPITE professionals with decades of experience trying to convince me that there isn't a problem, moreso because they were just too dam proud to even consider that their years meant they couldn't ever be wrong, ever, especially when questioned by the guy who merely owns the car, and reads all the time...

danglerb

Skip the scope and manuals, check their teeth so you don't get a cranky one.

linderpat

Holy **** - that's too friggin long to read!

blown 87

I bet people get awesome just being around you.

I have read some of your posts, even though I did not read that one, so once again, good luck Richard.

blown 87

That was funny man.

nsantolick

I'm surprised to hear that you actually take the time to read anything here. You've been a mechanic since your first trimester. I mean, surely you're omnipotent, right?

I understand your frustration with people like me. To think a car owner would be so insolent as to question your infallible authority... The nerve of some people.



Best of luck with your interviewing "perspective" clients to see if they're good enough, your Majesty, Lord of All Things Mechanical. I think it's a dam fine thing that you leave them in the dark regarding estimates of time or cost. That's certainly a sign of a competent professional.

When you say that "you're an expert", that should be enough for anyone, even if, and imagine this, that they don't know who the hell you are, somehow. Please pardon the heresy to even suggest that in the first place...




Now who's Richard???

blown 87

Find where I ever said I was a expert here or said that to anyone.

I learn new things every day, it is impossible to know everything, even everything about one make of car.

The reason I do interviews with Porsche owners who may be perspective clients is so I do not have to deal with people like you.


As far as who is Richard, I will leave that one up to you to figure out Richard.